Tesla unlikely to Survive (Vol. 3)

[Piginapoke]

Just £18.7bn revenue in Q1 (up 87%) with margin of 32.9%.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/20/tesla-tsla-earning...

[Smiljan]

18.7bn revenue = $23 bn in bonus payments to Musk this year unlocked.

How the heck does that work? Granted, he has to keep the stock for 5 years before selling but that is a serious payday for a man who claims to be homeless with no salary.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/apr/21/e...

Interesting to see they again helped other manufacturers continue polluting by buying their regulatory credits. Something I thought ethically Tesla would stop at this stage given their enormous profits and cash holdings. Not exactly part of their fabled mission to continue doing so.

Great performance though given the troubles still present in all manufacturing across the globe currently.

[Ouroboros]

Is this actual profit or accounting magic. I thought Tesla owed a shot load of high interest loans?

[Smiljan]

Ouroboros said:

Is this actual profit or accounting magic. I thought Tesla owed a shot load of high interest loans?

I don't know, is this healthy for a company of this size?

Figures are x1 million. So for example Customer deposits held are currently 1.1 billion up from 745 million a year ago. Debt and finance leases down to 3 billion from 9 billion. Despite this total liabilities have grown more than 2 billion.

Edited by Smiljan on Thursday 21st April 13:03

[D4rez]

Ouroboros said:

Is this actual profit or accounting magic. I thought Tesla owed a shot load of high interest loans?

They’ve paid the majority of those down and are in positive free industrial cash flow with great margins. Their net debt is way lower than established OEMs - they’re in great shape

[Ouroboros]

D4rez said:

They’ve paid the majority of those down and are in positive free industrial cash flow with great margins. Their net debt is way lower than established OEMs - they’re in great shape

I see long term debt at 30 ish billion. I'd this normal considering there market share is now being attacked.

I'm just surprised with all the issues for increasing cost of manufacturing Musk is getting such high pay offs.

[Ouroboros]

Also is the range Riverside enough I mean what happened with the truck, roadster ,semi. When I hear this stuff about Tesla I do sometimes think about other inflated companies, enron etc

[Smiljan]

Ouroboros said:

I see long term debt at 30 ish billion. I'd this normal considering there market share is now being attacked.

I'm just surprised with all the issues for increasing cost of manufacturing Musk is getting such high pay offs.

His remuneration package is entirely dependent on the company valuation ( and hence stock price ). Its the main reason for his antics with regards to future promises, accusations of stock manipulation and his criminal record. Supporters like the antics because they generally invested at the bottom of the pyramid and want others to come in to prop up the stock price. Haters dislike his antics because he has become insanely rich from those antics whilst also receiving piffling fines from his criminal behavior. Seen by many Americans as another example of the wealthy getting away with everything while the average joe is stomped on for minor infractions.

I'm neither American or an investor so the stock price means nothing to me. I just like to follow the company with some sort of morbid fascination wonder when the penny will finally drop and the arse falls out of it leaving the faithful skint - as usually happens.

I could well be wrong and Musk will continue to grift and get away with everything illegal he does but in reality it doesn't matter to me either way.

[lizardbrain]

It’s remarkable how accurate the long term projections from about 5 years ago (for units and revenue) have turned out to be. 1 million cars a year seemed absurd not so long ago, but Tesla are more or less where they said they would be

[TameBritishMuslim]

Smiljan said:

18.7bn revenue = $23 bn in bonus payments to Musk this year unlocked.

How the heck does that work? Granted, he has to keep the stock for 5 years before selling but that is a serious payday for a man who claims to be homeless with no salary.

Because that was what the Board agreed with him if he met certain KPIs, which he clearly has.

Smiljan said:

Interesting to see they again helped other manufacturers continue polluting by buying their regulatory credits. Something I thought ethically Tesla would stop at this stage given their enormous profits and cash holdings. Not exactly part of their fabled mission to continue doing so.

Or rather, collect money for the inaction of legacy automakers to pivot to electric vehicles away from their polluting internal combustion engines.

[JD]

Ouroboros said:

I see long term debt at 30 ish billion. I'd this normal considering there market share is now being attacked.

Their market share is still going up in every region.

[Smiljan]

TameBritishMuslim said:

Smiljan said:

18.7bn revenue = $23 bn in bonus payments to Musk this year unlocked.

How the heck does that work? Granted, he has to keep the stock for 5 years before selling but that is a serious payday for a man who claims to be homeless with no salary.

Because that was what the Board agreed with him if he met certain KPIs, which he clearly has.

Smiljan said:

Interesting to see they again helped other manufacturers continue polluting by buying their regulatory credits. Something I thought ethically Tesla would stop at this stage given their enormous profits and cash holdings. Not exactly part of their fabled mission to continue doing so.

Or rather, collect money for the inaction of legacy automakers to pivot to electric vehicles away from their polluting internal combustion engines.

I don't disagree with your comments. Both valid.

[Ouroboros]

JD said:

Their market share is still going up in every region.

14% , VW is 12%. All EV car manufacturers are increasing in market share.

There is definitely something fishy about Tesla numbers with that big margins , when manufacturing costs has increased massively, just doesn't make sense.

[TameBritishMuslim]

Ouroboros said:

JD said:

Their market share is still going up in every region.

14% , VW is 12%. All EV car manufacturers are increasing in market share.

There is definitely something fishy about Tesla numbers with that big margins , when manufacturing costs has increased massively, just doesn't make sense.

As demand isn't a problem for them, they've been able to increase the cost of their vehicles whilst continuously improving production efficiency. However, margins may take a hit this quarter due to the shut downs in China.

[cossey]

Ouroboros said:

JD said:

Their market share is still going up in every region.

14% , VW is 12%. All EV car manufacturers are increasing in market share.

There is definitely something fishy about Tesla numbers with that big margins , when manufacturing costs has increased massively, just doesn't make sense.

There is a graph later in the report that shows GAAP Margin and that is massively closer to the rivals than the headline table. This was the first quarter they were clear leaders in the industry.
Still their improvement with increasing volume is impressive and the core development on the car and process for the 3/Y looks very good.
If the Semi/Roadster/Cybertruck/general Musk Twitter nonsense wasn't around then the company value would be a lot less controversial. They still seem along way from hitting any limit on growth.

[D4rez]

Ouroboros said:

I see long term debt at 30 ish billion. I'd this normal considering there market share is now being attacked.

I'm just surprised with all the issues for increasing cost of manufacturing Musk is getting such high pay offs.

That’s including current liabilities (accounts payable etc) though - long term borrowing is a lot lower - net is £100m. As a reference BMWs is 90bn euros

Edited by D4rez on Thursday 21st April 18:12

[Ouroboros]

Tesla insurance sounds interesting. It does Tesla might be geared yp for EV sales.

Found this on YT, Tesla do look like they have there st in order.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fVYKaEvL3U

[NDA]

Ouroboros said:

Tesla insurance sounds interesting. It does Tesla might be geared yp for EV sales.

Found this on YT, Tesla do look like they have there st in order.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fVYKaEvL3U

I wonder if Tesla will survive?

[Smiljan]

D4rez said:

Ouroboros said:

I see long term debt at 30 ish billion. I'd this normal considering there market share is now being attacked.

I'm just surprised with all the issues for increasing cost of manufacturing Musk is getting such high pay offs.

That’s including current liabilities (accounts payable etc) though - long term borrowing is a lot lower - net is £100m. As a reference BMWs is 90bn euros

Edited by D4rez on Thursday 21st April 18:12

BMW or the BMW Group? Either way it's an odd comparison to make.

[Ouroboros]

NDA said:

I wonder if Tesla will survive?

Some very troubling times coming, fighting over resources for all EV makers. Who knows?