Tesla - why don’t I want one?
Discussion
GroundZero said:
All I'm saying is that the whole premise of an EV, on the political angle, the science angle and the finance angle, is that the aim is for range and to use as little CO2s as possible. If you dispute that premise then so be it.
But if that premise is true, then to sacrifice range for performance goes against all that.
And as mentioned, I personally have no problem with that, as I'll never own a milk float, but there is no grand argument to support a performance EV if the aim of them is for zero CO2s.
Edit to add : I do accept that personal choice will see some wanting a performance EV, and again no problems with that. But it all returns to the point that a performance EV on the footing of the premise set out above becomes an oxymoron.
OK let's accept your sacred premise. If you replace every ICE car out there from shopping trolley to supercar with an equivalent EV you will generate less CO2. Premise satisfied. Do you accept that BMW, Audi, Mercedes etc.. have invested hundreds of millions if not billions over the years in producing ever more fuel efficient cars? Yet at the same time producing M, RS and AMG variants? Are you over in those forums repeating "oxymoron" at them too? Your point is true that model S Plaids and Taycan Turbos could be made more efficient still by limiting their power and top speed and fitting skinny wheels etc.. but that point is entirely obvious. The point you're missing is that is even more true with ICE cars.But if that premise is true, then to sacrifice range for performance goes against all that.
And as mentioned, I personally have no problem with that, as I'll never own a milk float, but there is no grand argument to support a performance EV if the aim of them is for zero CO2s.
Edit to add : I do accept that personal choice will see some wanting a performance EV, and again no problems with that. But it all returns to the point that a performance EV on the footing of the premise set out above becomes an oxymoron.
fblm said:
OK let's accept your sacred premise. If you replace every ICE car out there from shopping trolley to supercar with an equivalent EV you will generate less CO2. Premise satisfied. Do you accept that BMW, Audi, Mercedes etc.. have invested hundreds of millions if not billions over the years in producing ever more fuel efficient cars? Yet at the same time producing M, RS and AMG variants?
Of course. fblm said:
Are you over in those forums repeating "oxymoron" at them too?
No, because they are not oxymoron.EVs are advertised as zero emissions and politically the answer to CO2s, therefore it is a contradiction to see range being sacrificed for performance. Hence the oxymoron.
However, ICE is not advertised as zero emissions, never was, and politically they are being phased out in favour of milk floats, in the premise of zero emissions and the saving the planet religion. This sits on the aim to reduce CO2 usage, not increase it for the option of faster acceleration or higher top speed performance metrics. So no, oxymoron not applicable to ICE, but very applicable to milk floats.
If you took out the politics and the "climate crisis religion" then the oxymoron would quickly disappear and you could then compare milk floats and ICE cars directly.
Unfortunately for your argument, the CO2 religion and politics is firmly embedded in to why EVs are going to be mandated as the only option for new sales.
GroundZero said:
EVs are advertised as zero emissions and politically the answer to CO2s, therefore it is a contradiction to see range being sacrificed for performance.
Range isn't sacrificed for performance. Adding range increases performance potential for free. Again it's the opposite way round to ICE.People can then choose to use or not use the performance at any time, which may impact on their range on the day.
What a mental thread, it's been quite an eye opener 
I never really paid much attention to EVs until late last year when a mate in work purchased a Model 3 LR and took me out for a drive in it and it really did blow me away. I am coming from an F82 M4, and when he floored the thing (his has the acceleration boost), I could not believe what had just happend. 'Does it not even have any gears to change?' i naively asked him. Then he let me drive it for a while. Things like the one pedal driving, the zero need for servicing, using the phone app to pre heat the car when it's freezing outside, the silence, the sentry mode, the big screen, the 4 wheel drive, the novelty stuff that made me laugh like a child etc. It was an attractive all round package that I could see myself buying right into. My main stumbling block was the looks.
After some deliberating, I have put an order in for a black M3P. Reason for that is I think the bigger wheels and calipers etc do make it more acceptable in the looks department to me compared to bog standard white ones which are getting more common. I really hope they bring out some kind of coupe in the future. I was tempted to do the natrual upgrade from my F82 M4 into a G82 M4. After having now driven both, the Tesla won me over. Looking forward to getting it.
I never really paid much attention to EVs until late last year when a mate in work purchased a Model 3 LR and took me out for a drive in it and it really did blow me away. I am coming from an F82 M4, and when he floored the thing (his has the acceleration boost), I could not believe what had just happend. 'Does it not even have any gears to change?' i naively asked him. Then he let me drive it for a while. Things like the one pedal driving, the zero need for servicing, using the phone app to pre heat the car when it's freezing outside, the silence, the sentry mode, the big screen, the 4 wheel drive, the novelty stuff that made me laugh like a child etc. It was an attractive all round package that I could see myself buying right into. My main stumbling block was the looks.
After some deliberating, I have put an order in for a black M3P. Reason for that is I think the bigger wheels and calipers etc do make it more acceptable in the looks department to me compared to bog standard white ones which are getting more common. I really hope they bring out some kind of coupe in the future. I was tempted to do the natrual upgrade from my F82 M4 into a G82 M4. After having now driven both, the Tesla won me over. Looking forward to getting it.
Scrubs said:
...Things like the one pedal driving, the zero need for servicing, using the phone app to pre heat the car when it's freezing outside, the silence, the sentry mode, the big screen, the 4 wheel drive, the novelty stuff that made me laugh like a child etc...
Servicing aside I hate everything you like lol. The one thing I couldn't get over though (on the 3LR) is the feeling you're sat on it rather than in it. Very odd and I'm not sure decent seats would fix it either. Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 15th March 19:51
Scrubs said:
What a mental thread, it's been quite an eye opener
I never really paid much attention to EVs until late last year when a mate in work purchased a Model 3 LR and took me out for a drive in it and it really did blow me away. I am coming from an F82 M4, and when he floored the thing (his has the acceleration boost), I could not believe what had just happend. 'Does it not even have any gears to change?' i naively asked him. Then he let me drive it for a while. Things like the one pedal driving, the zero need for servicing, using the phone app to pre heat the car when it's freezing outside, the silence, the sentry mode, the big screen, the 4 wheel drive, the novelty stuff that made me laugh like a child etc. It was an attractive all round package that I could see myself buying right into. My main stumbling block was the looks.
After some deliberating, I have put an order in for a black M3P. Reason for that is I think the bigger wheels and calipers etc do make it more acceptable in the looks department to me compared to bog standard white ones which are getting more common. I really hope they bring out some kind of coupe in the future. I was tempted to do the natrual upgrade from my F82 M4 into a G82 M4. After having now driven both, the Tesla won me over. Looking forward to getting it.
Good choice on the M3P. Looking forward to mine arriving in May. I never really paid much attention to EVs until late last year when a mate in work purchased a Model 3 LR and took me out for a drive in it and it really did blow me away. I am coming from an F82 M4, and when he floored the thing (his has the acceleration boost), I could not believe what had just happend. 'Does it not even have any gears to change?' i naively asked him. Then he let me drive it for a while. Things like the one pedal driving, the zero need for servicing, using the phone app to pre heat the car when it's freezing outside, the silence, the sentry mode, the big screen, the 4 wheel drive, the novelty stuff that made me laugh like a child etc. It was an attractive all round package that I could see myself buying right into. My main stumbling block was the looks.
After some deliberating, I have put an order in for a black M3P. Reason for that is I think the bigger wheels and calipers etc do make it more acceptable in the looks department to me compared to bog standard white ones which are getting more common. I really hope they bring out some kind of coupe in the future. I was tempted to do the natrual upgrade from my F82 M4 into a G82 M4. After having now driven both, the Tesla won me over. Looking forward to getting it.
thecrow said:
We test drove a Model 3 And Model Y LR over the weekend. Ordered the Model Y. For 99% of the driving we do it will do the job better, with less fuss and less cost. Obviously each to their own but I liked the interior, it felt solid and didn’t rattle. A relaxing place to be with extremely handy acceleration immediately on demand.
For the other 1% I’ve got my manual Cayman GTS 4.0.
You'll love it, it's the best car I've owned.For the other 1% I’ve got my manual Cayman GTS 4.0.
I've just sold a BMW X3M and before the Y arrived I was a little unsure I made the right choice, however the BMW feels so old and 'mechanical in comparison, dare I say, slower. Forget 0_60, any speed, foot down and instant shove, torque delight, just as pleasant tooting around.
Check tyre pressure on delivery, mine were set at 50psi, 25% over inflated, dropped to 40 ish and very comfortable, 19" wheels.
If you can, ask for a no wash, my paint was ruined by a prewash, it will be sorted out but disappointing. Apart from that, it's a joy, so much fun, the kids love it andI love it more than I thought I would.
knitware said:
thecrow said:
We test drove a Model 3 And Model Y LR over the weekend. Ordered the Model Y. For 99% of the driving we do it will do the job better, with less fuss and less cost. Obviously each to their own but I liked the interior, it felt solid and didn’t rattle. A relaxing place to be with extremely handy acceleration immediately on demand.
For the other 1% I’ve got my manual Cayman GTS 4.0.
You'll love it, it's the best car I've owned.For the other 1% I’ve got my manual Cayman GTS 4.0.
I've just sold a BMW X3M and before the Y arrived I was a little unsure I made the right choice, however the BMW feels so old and 'mechanical in comparison, dare I say, slower. Forget 0_60, any speed, foot down and instant shove, torque delight, just as pleasant tooting around.
Check tyre pressure on delivery, mine were set at 50psi, 25% over inflated, dropped to 40 ish and very comfortable, 19" wheels.
If you can, ask for a no wash, my paint was ruined by a prewash, it will be sorted out but disappointing. Apart from that, it's a joy, so much fun, the kids love it andI love it more than I thought I would.
So far I don't miss the Golf R that it has replaced (and I LOVED that car), whilst our Jag F Pace suddenly seems like a dinosaur; the delay when engine stop-start kicks in leaving junctions, the non-linear acceleration/torque, feeling the gear changes and even just having to unlock it and turn it on all seems very antiquated. It may still be the honeymoon period, but the Tesla feels like the start of the future; it's just 'better' in almost every way.
That said, I still feel - probably irrationally - that having a second petrol car for long journeys makes sense, but that view may change once I've used a supercharger etc. (I'm keeping my Elise though...).
chemistry said:
It may still be the honeymoon period, but the Tesla feels like the start of the future; it's just 'better' in almost every way.
That said, I still feel - probably irrationally - that having a second petrol car for long journeys makes sense, but that view may change once I've used a supercharger etc. (I'm keeping my Elise though...).
I feel much the same. I have a Model 3 and, despite having other petrol cars, use the Tesla in preference to anything else. I find it difficult to fault - very easy to own and always full of fuel/volts.That said, I still feel - probably irrationally - that having a second petrol car for long journeys makes sense, but that view may change once I've used a supercharger etc. (I'm keeping my Elise though...).
Long range travel just requires an additional 5 minutes of planning. If you're lazy, the car will work it all out anyway.
I keep an amusement in my garage too - but it is starting to feel rather odd on the few occasions I drive it!
knitware said:
Check tyre pressure on delivery, mine were set at 50psi, 25% over inflated, dropped to 40 ish and very comfortable, 19" wheels.
If you can, ask for a no wash, my paint was ruined by a prewash, it will be sorted out but disappointing. Apart from that, it's a joy, so much fun, the kids love it andI love it more than I thought I would.
These are both common complaints at the moment. Tesla seem to be inflating the tyres to max for the tyre while shipping but not checking them as part of the PDI.If you can, ask for a no wash, my paint was ruined by a prewash, it will be sorted out but disappointing. Apart from that, it's a joy, so much fun, the kids love it andI love it more than I thought I would.
They also all appear to be washing them with a dirty rag prior to delivery.
somouk said:
knitware said:
Check tyre pressure on delivery, mine were set at 50psi, 25% over inflated, dropped to 40 ish and very comfortable, 19" wheels.
If you can, ask for a no wash, my paint was ruined by a prewash, it will be sorted out but disappointing. Apart from that, it's a joy, so much fun, the kids love it andI love it more than I thought I would.
These are both common complaints at the moment. Tesla seem to be inflating the tyres to max for the tyre while shipping but not checking them as part of the PDI.If you can, ask for a no wash, my paint was ruined by a prewash, it will be sorted out but disappointing. Apart from that, it's a joy, so much fun, the kids love it andI love it more than I thought I would.
They also all appear to be washing them with a dirty rag prior to delivery.
I picked up a white M3 in November and it was fine, hopefully the Blue Y I’m collecting on Tuesday will be OK too.
PH User said:
Only 1% of your driving is for fun? You need to get that Cayman out more often.
At the moment it comes out 95% of the time as it is my daily (we have an ML63 which is going, and an A3, but the Cayman is 'my' car) and to be honest, a lot of my driving is to get somewhere (on whatever crappy road/motorway takes me there). There IS enjoyment to be had out of that, don't get me wrong, but when I've had a 'weekend' car before, the enjoyment of taking it out disproportionately increases as it is a more specific 'event'. And in any case, I get your point - and agree, that I need to make more effort to take it out to actually enjoy it, rather than using it purely as a necessary means of transport!wyson said:
Lucky sod.
Thank you - first Porsche, bought before everything came crashing down in terms of supply (as a final hurrah to 3 pedals and no turbos) and I definitely consider myself lucky!jwilco said:
Maybe they are a car enthusiast though and so have fun driving either.
That's also very valid - I don't see EVs as not being fun, just different. I think the single pedal driving is interesting and a new skill to learn, the instant nature of electric motors is really useful (and being able to overtake cyclists etc without deafening them / pissing them off is an unexpected bonus), the tech is novel. My experience so far is that they're more 'impressive' than 'entertaining' but I think that's also to do with what my brain is calibrated to expect to find entertaining. I can see that evolving as I get used to electric.I'm not expecting some sort of EV Nirvana to set in, but I think anything can be fun to drive if you approach it with an open mind.
Just went for a test drive in a Model Y.
Sure it has a bit of a jarring ride, that I worry might get tiring over long distances.
Sure the suspension sophistication and refinement are at a similar level to my Golf, which costs half as much.
Sure I can’t see much out of the tiny back window.
But I want one badly.
Practicality is excellent.
Seats are comfortable.
Small enough to park and manoeuvre easily around town.
One pedal driving is mega convenient, as is not having a gearbox to worry about.
Hifi is OK.
Infotainment is second to non, exactly how it should be done, and its surprisingly intuitive to control everything from the screen and steering mounted scroll wheels.
But.
The Mrs vetoed the purchase because our bills have basically doubled recently, eating into the car budget. But when / if they come down, I’m putting in an order! She suggested getting something cheaper now, like another Golf. Oh man. She doesn’t get it.
Sure it has a bit of a jarring ride, that I worry might get tiring over long distances.
Sure the suspension sophistication and refinement are at a similar level to my Golf, which costs half as much.
Sure I can’t see much out of the tiny back window.
But I want one badly.
Practicality is excellent.
Seats are comfortable.
Small enough to park and manoeuvre easily around town.
One pedal driving is mega convenient, as is not having a gearbox to worry about.
Hifi is OK.
Infotainment is second to non, exactly how it should be done, and its surprisingly intuitive to control everything from the screen and steering mounted scroll wheels.
But.
The Mrs vetoed the purchase because our bills have basically doubled recently, eating into the car budget. But when / if they come down, I’m putting in an order! She suggested getting something cheaper now, like another Golf. Oh man. She doesn’t get it.
Edited by wyson on Sunday 17th April 19:36
With the cost of fuel now if you do decent mileage the saving on that and tax will pay most of the extra cost of the car.
Model Ys aren't that bad to lease and will hold their value better as well I suspect...
Don't like them personally but from a man maths perspective it should be easy to justify 😀
Model Ys aren't that bad to lease and will hold their value better as well I suspect...
Don't like them personally but from a man maths perspective it should be easy to justify 😀
wyson said:
The Mrs vetoed the purchase because our bills have basically doubled recently, eating into the car budget. But when / if they come down, I’m putting in an order!
Model Y pricing in the UK is currently about £3-5k CHEAPER than equivalent US pricing. No sure why, demand issue or just Tesla been Tesla.If you really want a Y get it NOW, prices on all these cars are just going UP now down. Inflation is going to near double digits this year, so unless you can save up quicker than inflation going up waiting is wrong thing to do.
https://cleantechnica.com/2022/04/13/lower-priced-...
Apparently, they might launch a cheaper Model Y standard range soon?
But yes, I do need to spend some proper spreadsheet time. Just very doubtful, having done one in the past, pre covid against a Model 3 that the figures will stack up. At the end of the day, a Model Y is still a £55k car. We also do low mileages, 3k to 5k a year which doesn’t help the cause, nor does electricity being about 30p a kWh. .30 x 75 = £22.5 for a full charge.
But I already know what the Mrs will say if I present the evidence… so if an electric car is that much cheaper, how much can we save getting a cheaper electric car?
Its mainly the bills created by the energy crisis that have us worried (£340 gas bill recently when then are usually in the hundred something range) and the potential they will go up even more. Its knocked our consumer confidence!
Apparently, they might launch a cheaper Model Y standard range soon?
But yes, I do need to spend some proper spreadsheet time. Just very doubtful, having done one in the past, pre covid against a Model 3 that the figures will stack up. At the end of the day, a Model Y is still a £55k car. We also do low mileages, 3k to 5k a year which doesn’t help the cause, nor does electricity being about 30p a kWh. .30 x 75 = £22.5 for a full charge.
But I already know what the Mrs will say if I present the evidence… so if an electric car is that much cheaper, how much can we save getting a cheaper electric car?
Its mainly the bills created by the energy crisis that have us worried (£340 gas bill recently when then are usually in the hundred something range) and the potential they will go up even more. Its knocked our consumer confidence!
Edited by wyson on Monday 18th April 09:49
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