Does (did?) Tesla have the right idea?

[egomeister]

C.A.R. said:

egomeister said:

No, I can dismiss it as "nonsense" because your "hot-take" is "garbage"

Ah, now my opinion is garbage, but I'm still entitled to it, just as you are to yours. Neither of us is "right", but one of us can at least see that there is quite a big distinction between driving a passenger car you are going to be very familiar with vs trying to fly a commercial airplane. The two are so similar!

Studies have been cited? What studies? Anyone can say on the internet with confidence that 'Studies have been made to prove my point'. That's not citing something specific, that's stabbing around in the dark for justification in the hope that there's probably a study out there that has been done. Manufacturers of cars get slated for it - particularly by the older motoring press I might add - but consumers are lapping it up.

I maintain the old man shouts at tablet opinion.

What would it require to persuade you that there are merits to having physical controls over touchscreens when operating some of the functions of a vehicle?

[CharlieAlphaMike]

kurokawa said:

I do wish there would be knob for temp, as I am very sensitive to inside temp, but overall I like the big screen especially for sat nav

Use the voice control: 'set temperature to ??' or 'turn heated seats on/off'. Easiest thing in the world to do

[Zcd1]

ColdoRS said:

I’d be interested to know how you’re getting on with the Genesis? I’m considering changing my 2020 M3P but struggling to find anything that I think will be as good, like you I love the M3P, it’s a great car.

It’s a very nice car. Extremely smooth and quiet, comfortable, seemingly very well-built, looks ace (we think). It’s the wife’s car, and she adores it.

It’s good at things the Tesla isn’t good at: traditional luxury, fancy interior materials and design, quiet interior at all times and a slightly blingy exterior design.

But its infotainment software is needlessly complex and arcane, and it has many more settings for everything than are necessary or even advisable.

Then there are the traditional ICE features that have no business in an EV, like a “start” button. And it doesn’t know which driver is in the car until you choose the appropriate profile on the touchscreen after sitting down.

It also requires you to choose a sportier drive mode every time you start it. It defaults back to “Comfort” every time it’s turned off, and its max performance mode is only available in 10-second bursts via a “Boost” button on the steering wheel. It’s also interesting that it will spin the front tires aggressively on a hard launch in Boost mode. Not a fan of that, and it seems to me to be a legacy of H/K’s ICE vehicle traction control algorithms. As you know, the Model 3P makes it almost impossible to spin a tire, which to me means more/greater control and enables more of the car’s performance to be used more of the time.

The handling is secure enough, though not actually inspiring.

I will say that its DC fast charging speed is amazing. Consider this: during a recent charging session, it was still pulling 132KW at 80% SOC. That’s stunning, and clearly better than any Tesla.

Overall, it suits my wife perfectly.

I wouldn’t be happy with it as a substitute for my M3P, but it’s great to have a more practical, cushier option to drive when we want that.

I’d want to try an EV6GT as a possible successor to my Tesla.

[ColdoRS]

Zcd1 said:

ColdoRS said:

I’d be interested to know how you’re getting on with the Genesis? I’m considering changing my 2020 M3P but struggling to find anything that I think will be as good, like you I love the M3P, it’s a great car.

It’s a very nice car. Extremely smooth and quiet, comfortable, seemingly very well-built, looks ace (we think). It’s the wife’s car, and she adores it.

It’s good at things the Tesla isn’t good at: traditional luxury, fancy interior materials and design, quiet interior at all times and a slightly blingy exterior design.

But its infotainment software is needlessly complex and arcane, and it has many more settings for everything than are necessary or even advisable.

Then there are the traditional ICE features that have no business in an EV, like a “start” button. And it doesn’t know which driver is in the car until you choose the appropriate profile on the touchscreen after sitting down.

It also requires you to choose a sportier drive mode every time you start it. It defaults back to “Comfort” every time it’s turned off, and its max performance mode is only available in 10-second bursts via a “Boost” button on the steering wheel. It’s also interesting that it will spin the front tires aggressively on a hard launch in Boost mode. Not a fan of that, and it seems to me to be a legacy of H/K’s ICE vehicle traction control algorithms. As you know, the Model 3P makes it almost impossible to spin a tire, which to me means more/greater control and enables more of the car’s performance to be used more of the time.

The handling is secure enough, though not actually inspiring.

I will say that its DC fast charging speed is amazing. Consider this: during a recent charging session, it was still pulling 132KW at 80% SOC. That’s stunning, and clearly better than any Tesla.

Overall, it suits my wife perfectly.

I wouldn’t be happy with it as a substitute for my M3P, but it’s great to have a more practical, cushier option to drive when we want that.

I’d want to try an EV6GT as a possible successor to my Tesla.

Thanks for that, much as I thought - arguably more luxury but misses the spot ergonomically, when compared to the Tesla.
EV6 GT appeals too but it seems expensive and also only Lease spec white, or black!

Everything is pushing me towards a Model Y...

[Zcd1]

ColdoRS said:

Thanks for that, much as I thought - arguably more luxury but misses the spot ergonomically, when compared to the Tesla.
EV6 GT appeals too but it seems expensive and also only Lease spec white, or black!

Everything is pushing me towards a Model Y...

It’s just focused on being a quick luxury ride and it plays that part very well.

I prefer something sportier

[C.A.R.]

egomeister said:

What would it require to persuade you that there are merits to having physical controls over touchscreens when operating some of the functions of a vehicle?

Ah, a change of tact. Now there are merits / advantages to physical controls of course there are. But this all started because someone suggested that they are "Better", which is purely subjective.

There are definitely advantages to some things being physical controls. But they already are physical controls in the Model 3 / Y. The indicators, wipers, gear selection etc. etc. I believe these are old Mercedes items and they work well.

[Heres Johnny]

C.A.R. said:

Ah, a change of tact. Now there are merits / advantages to physical controls of course there are. But this all started because someone suggested that they are "Better", which is purely subjective.

There are definitely advantages to some things being physical controls. But they already are physical controls in the Model 3 / Y. The indicators, wipers, gear selection etc. etc. I believe these are old Mercedes items and they work well.

You've not seen the latest model S and X have you?

Indicators are buttons, but wipers, gear select etc are now all attempted to be automatic with touchscreen override

[Order66]

C.A.R. said:

I think this is a generational thing, as I have yet to get bored of it after 10 months. It's definitely a car with the younger generation in mind, but often priced so only the older generation can afford it, ergo you get this split opinion online.

Basically; old farts and technology don't mix.

Coming back to this as I've been busy with work. I've read some pish on PH before but this is right up there.

It's not a generational thing, its bad human factors ( I say that as someone postgrad qualified and pubished in the field, having implemented control systems for operators on warships and fast jets).

I never argued for physical, but some features need a button. That can be on a touchscreen, but it needs to exist. The number of primary controls which are in nested menus or temporarily on screen is depressing. The wasted non-functional whitespace on the screen for a distracting, incorrect and quite frankly gimmicky view of the car driving is depressing.

For example, I have a warning message that one or more cameras are blocked or blinded which is prominent on the screen all fking winter, because the sun is low. It makes little to no functional difference, especially when on the motorway, but it is prominent and frequently switching on/off in the same position as other warnings, forcing the driver to pay attention. There is ample screen space where an icon could be warning of the camera issue, which could be tapped on to pop-up the detail of the warning, but nope, there it is distracting the driver.

However as noted, if I want to turn on the fog lights (a primary function) its 2 taps in separate areas of the screen. This is catastrophically piss-poor human factors and I question if there should be a legal requirement for single-press access to primary controls such as fogs. Alternatively some of the massive whitespace could provide foglight controls when the main lights are activated.

So older generation my arse. I'm mid-40s so not exactly an old fart, and have been designing UIs for over 20 years. Its ste implementation. The screen isn't the problem, the design is.