Elon Musk ordered Tesla software to be optimistic on range
Discussion
kevinon said:
Musk boasts of making x (RIP twitter) the 'everything app' including banking facilities. Hmm. Customers and partners need to trust a business to hand over that much power.
I'm out.
The Reuters story seems totally in keeping with Musk's MO. Check the source: https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-repor...
Quote:
"Jonathan Elfalan, vehicle testing director for the automotive website Edmunds.com, reached a similar conclusion to Pannone after an extensive examination of vehicles from Tesla and other major automakers, including Ford, General Motors, Hyundai and Porsche.
All five Tesla models tested by Edmunds failed to achieve their advertised range, the website reported in February 2021. All but one of 10 other models from other manufacturers exceeded their advertised range"
That's all irrelevant. It doesn't matter even if Tesla do give their range guides more optimistically than others.I'm out.
The Reuters story seems totally in keeping with Musk's MO. Check the source: https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-repor...
Quote:
"Jonathan Elfalan, vehicle testing director for the automotive website Edmunds.com, reached a similar conclusion to Pannone after an extensive examination of vehicles from Tesla and other major automakers, including Ford, General Motors, Hyundai and Porsche.
All five Tesla models tested by Edmunds failed to achieve their advertised range, the website reported in February 2021. All but one of 10 other models from other manufacturers exceeded their advertised range"
All that matters is that the car supplied is as tested on the WLTP cycle and that they don't claim it can do more than on that cycle. That's it - so long as that is true, there is nothing more to answer to.
If a person doesn't like Tesla/musk as a result of this, don't buy their cars. None of this is news or lawsuit worthy though.
Why is everyone so frothy and desperate for drama these days
I'm assuming it has nothing to do with WLTP (which is a worthless metric anyhow) but that they have setup the range prediction in the car to be very optimistic. I have always assumed Tesla would do that because people like to repeat those numbers online while never really checking their accuracy so a great marketing tool and virtually no downsides to it. Given that Tesla market their cars on two things, range and 0-60, they will do everything they can to make those two numbers look good at all times. Like being able to launch once to hit a low 0-60 number and fudging with the range prediction.
Yeah but many EVs do a good job with it for route planning purposes. You kinda need to get that reasonably right at the start of the journey. Telling me I have 50% more range than I actually have isn’t great when I’m stuck in the middle of nowhere with a dead EV.
I don’t think it’s a big deal re Tesla, by the way. They always seem to get the most stick.
I don’t think it’s a big deal re Tesla, by the way. They always seem to get the most stick.
From what I remember on tests between 2014 and 2020, the Tesla's used to be closest to their stated range. I remember the hilarity of Nissan stating with a straight face that a 24kWh Leaf could do 124 miles (more like 80).
I feel like this is just another round of the Musk-bashing that has currently become fashionable. It's really rather boring to be honest.
I had hoped that maybe once there was a Democrat in the White House and Trump was gone we'd see a reduction in the polemics; ah well maybe next year when Labour will be in power in the UK we might see the Social Media mob pile-ons calm down.
I feel like this is just another round of the Musk-bashing that has currently become fashionable. It's really rather boring to be honest.
I had hoped that maybe once there was a Democrat in the White House and Trump was gone we'd see a reduction in the polemics; ah well maybe next year when Labour will be in power in the UK we might see the Social Media mob pile-ons calm down.
otolith said:
Just to be clear, this isn't a question of the official WLTP/EPA test ranges being gamed, this is about what the dashboard displays the estimated range to be.
Which one? The one that you can switch between battery percentage and "range" (which is simply based off the official range figure, adjusted for SoC), or the one that changes based on consumption/efficiency figures?The former is pretty useless and I leave it on % SoC. The latter is real-world and pretty accurate in my experience, regardless of how you are driving.
paradigital said:
Which one? The one that you can switch between battery percentage and "range" (which is simply based off the official range figure, adjusted for SoC), or the one that changes based on consumption/efficiency figures?
The former is pretty useless and I leave it on % SoC. The latter is real-world and pretty accurate in my experience, regardless of how you are driving.
Dunno. This;The former is pretty useless and I leave it on % SoC. The latter is real-world and pretty accurate in my experience, regardless of how you are driving.
https://www.motortrend.com/news/tesla-ev-lying-ran...
SWoll said:
Perhaps it's the muppet who thinks that he can drive his car 4 up with luggage in single digit temperatures at highway speeds and get the advertised range numbers that is referenced in the article?
Not just that, it's the way they all accelerate away from the traffic lights.Yes EVs can do that of course, but you don't have to prove it every time. If you do, the range will suffer.
M4cruiser said:
Not just that, it's the way they all accelerate away from the traffic lights.
Yes EVs can do that of course, but you don't have to prove it every time. If you do, the range will suffer.
How much difference does hard acceleration actually make in an EV, given that they don’t have the same variation in efficiency that ICEs do?Yes EVs can do that of course, but you don't have to prove it every time. If you do, the range will suffer.
Seems strange to me the EV makers have cornered themselves into reporting “range” figures which mean nothing rather than using consumption figures and useable battery size as metrics.
Renault had a really good range calculator on their site for the Zoe but unfortunately it’s not great for sales to tell your customers they’ll managed only 60% of the advertised range in winter on the highway.
It’s very confusing for consumers particularly if they aren’t fully certified EV geeks and I can see why that confusion exists. Even the example above having two different testing regimes with wildly differing results doesn’t help.
Tesla seems to over egg the range but let you drive well past zero and does everything to stop owners getting themselves stuck. Others seem to underegg the range but then have turtle modes that kick in with 20 or 30 miles left on the range display.
I’d personally prefer the Tesla approach, be more accurate lower end of the remaining range and give owners a good sized buffer when the inevitably get to zero on occasion.
Hopefully this case will cause pause for thought with all EV makes as to how they communicate the capabilities to customers.
Renault had a really good range calculator on their site for the Zoe but unfortunately it’s not great for sales to tell your customers they’ll managed only 60% of the advertised range in winter on the highway.
It’s very confusing for consumers particularly if they aren’t fully certified EV geeks and I can see why that confusion exists. Even the example above having two different testing regimes with wildly differing results doesn’t help.
Tesla seems to over egg the range but let you drive well past zero and does everything to stop owners getting themselves stuck. Others seem to underegg the range but then have turtle modes that kick in with 20 or 30 miles left on the range display.
I’d personally prefer the Tesla approach, be more accurate lower end of the remaining range and give owners a good sized buffer when the inevitably get to zero on occasion.
Hopefully this case will cause pause for thought with all EV makes as to how they communicate the capabilities to customers.
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