Re : Toyota GR Yaris - official!

[Tim16V]

It's outstanding.

Toyota Yaris 'limited to 143mph' is a phrase I never thought i'd see!

[cerb4.5lee]

GoodCompany said:

Leon R said:

big_rob_sydney said:

Colour me unimpressed.

2020 Toyota Yaris. 260 bhp. 1260 kg.
1994 Subaru Impreza WRX STI Type RA. 275 bhp. 1250 kg.

Good to see that after around a quarter of a CENTURY, we have something that doesn't live up to what was back then an agricultural product, from a backwards arse-end-of-the-country manufacturer.

I hate to have to ask, but don't you all think that with 26 years of advances in things like materials sciences, and modern manufacturing techniques, coming from a company as massive as Toyota with an almost bottomless R&D budget, might have produced something that could exceed what was made by what can only be described as the equivalent of a minnow "man-in-a-shed" Fuji Heavy Industries???

Don't get me wrong; I love Subaru as a brand, I bought 4 of them, even running a modified 22B for 7 years. So I feel like seeing this Toyota, has left me distinctly wondering what the big deal is, when we had toys like this to play with when Adam was a lad.

With 26 years, I expected so much more.

So much wrong with this I don't actually know where to start.

+1

It actually made me feel a little sad reading that I agree.

We currently live in a world obsessed with auto gearboxes and the massive push for everything to become electric. This car is a real positive for me to even be getting offered in this day and age.

[big_rob_sydney]

NotNormal said:

GoodCompany said:

Leon R said:

big_rob_sydney said:

Colour me unimpressed.

2020 Toyota Yaris. 260 bhp. 1260 kg.
1994 Subaru Impreza WRX STI Type RA. 275 bhp. 1250 kg.

Good to see that after around a quarter of a CENTURY, we have something that doesn't live up to what was back then an agricultural product, from a backwards arse-end-of-the-country manufacturer.

I hate to have to ask, but don't you all think that with 26 years of advances in things like materials sciences, and modern manufacturing techniques, coming from a company as massive as Toyota with an almost bottomless R&D budget, might have produced something that could exceed what was made by what can only be described as the equivalent of a minnow "man-in-a-shed" Fuji Heavy Industries???

Don't get me wrong; I love Subaru as a brand, I bought 4 of them, even running a modified 22B for 7 years. So I feel like seeing this Toyota, has left me distinctly wondering what the big deal is, when we had toys like this to play with when Adam was a lad.

With 26 years, I expected so much more.

So much wrong with this I don't actually know where to start.

+1

+2

I'll bite though, for a start the sites I have just googled do not show the older car as high as 275bhp

So whilst on that subject, lets start with the engine, you seem to have conveniently missed out the torque figure between the two and yet the older car has more capacity and an additional cylinder but substantially less torque........

If someone has something to add, by all means do so. Hiding behind a +X doesn't help.

As far as the websites you're suing, I have no idea what they are, but wiki gives a lot of information:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaru_Impreza

I'm sure torque and bhp will vary, as much as cylinder counts. I don't really bother too much with that, because the stopwatch never lies, regardless of what the composition of the car is. The older cars had tremendous handling, despite not having (relatively) gargantuan tires, and they were quick (0-62 often in the low 5's).

When the older cars are quicker, why do I need to care about torque?

[appletonn]

big_rob_sydney said:

Colour me unimpressed.

2020 Toyota Yaris. 260 bhp. 1260 kg.
1994 Subaru Impreza WRX STI Type RA. 275 bhp. 1250 kg.

Good to see that after around a quarter of a CENTURY, we have something that doesn't live up to what was back then an agricultural product, from a backwards arse-end-of-the-country manufacturer.

I hate to have to ask, but don't you all think that with 26 years of advances in things like materials sciences, and modern manufacturing techniques, coming from a company as massive as Toyota with an almost bottomless R&D budget, might have produced something that could exceed what was made by what can only be described as the equivalent of a minnow "man-in-a-shed" Fuji Heavy Industries???

Don't get me wrong; I love Subaru as a brand, I bought 4 of them, even running a modified 22B for 7 years. So I feel like seeing this Toyota, has left me distinctly wondering what the big deal is, when we had toys like this to play with when Adam was a lad.



With 26 years, I expected so much more.

I think they are cars from different classes though, not to mention different eras from a safety & environmental perspective?

Also refreshing to see something with a balanced output to weight - on today's roads that should equate to loads of smiles & still retain your licence!

I'm just glad that this Yaris exists & that it's different from the usual Cooper S Works, Clio nutterbd etc etc

[Kolbenkopp]

ecsrobin said:

Is it not 2,500 cars per year for group R rally cars? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_R

Yup -- it's 2.500 homologation cars from a base model that needs to sell at least 25.000 (in 12 months). To the regs, this 3-door "Yaris" is too far away from the regular car, the GR is viewed as separate model. Hence the need to shift so many.

Makes Toyota's commitment even more remarkable IMO. Think from a commercial perspective this is utter madness. Dunno how they managed to get the 3 door shell signed off -- can't be without help of the big boss.

[mooseracer]

big_rob_sydney said:

If someone has something to add, by all means do so. Hiding behind a +X doesn't help.

As far as the websites you're suing, I have no idea what they are, but wiki gives a lot of information:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaru_Impreza

I'm sure torque and bhp will vary, as much as cylinder counts. I don't really bother too much with that, because the stopwatch never lies, regardless of what the composition of the car is. The older cars had tremendous handling, despite not having (relatively) gargantuan tires, and they were quick (0-62 often in the low 5's).

When the older cars are quicker, why do I need to care about torque?

+3

And I remember standard Scoobys understeering good and proper, certainly not 'handling' well.

[Martingale]

rossub said:

Martingale said:

sharkattack said:

Don't they have to sell 25000 of the things according to the rules? They won't be that hard to get.

That's what I'm hoping for. If it's around £45k, my hope would be to pick up some used examples around 6 months after release.

If we look at the earlier GRMN Yaris, considering only around 100 models came to the UK and the fact that 5 are on sale right now under £20k, I'm hoping there will be some bargains shortly after the new GR gets released.

Good luck with that.

At £45k, they wouldn't even sell 100.

It will not be £45k.

I think you really underestimate what people are willing to spend. If Ford can sell an R5 Fiesta for €180,000 or used Porsche 911R selling for 500k plus which 99% identical to a GT3, a unique WRC homologated Yaris, with bespoke engine, body, with aluminium and carbon parts, where NOTHING on the market directly compares to etc will no have trouble selling even at £45k. Just because you won't.

EDIT: I GUARANTEE if it was limited to 100 at £45k they would be sold out before landing. I am 100% certain this will be more than £35k.

Edited by Martingale on Friday 10th January 15:24

[Onehp]

Or put differently, great they will make a modern day equivalent to a great 25 year old car, not that easy today....

Edited by Onehp on Friday 10th January 15:48

[Terminator X]

big_rob_sydney said:

Colour me unimpressed.

2020 Toyota Yaris. 260 bhp. 1260 kg.
1994 Subaru Impreza WRX STI Type RA. 275 bhp. 1250 kg.

Good to see that after around a quarter of a CENTURY, we have something that doesn't live up to what was back then an agricultural product, from a backwards arse-end-of-the-country manufacturer.

I hate to have to ask, but don't you all think that with 26 years of advances in things like materials sciences, and modern manufacturing techniques, coming from a company as massive as Toyota with an almost bottomless R&D budget, might have produced something that could exceed what was made by what can only be described as the equivalent of a minnow "man-in-a-shed" Fuji Heavy Industries???

Don't get me wrong; I love Subaru as a brand, I bought 4 of them, even running a modified 22B for 7 years. So I feel like seeing this Toyota, has left me distinctly wondering what the big deal is, when we had toys like this to play with when Adam was a lad.

With 26 years, I expected so much more.

In the context of 2020 though vs everyone else, what Toyota is doing is remarkable. Who else is doing it, not Subaru for damn sure.

TX.

PS I'm a Subaru man myself - JDM Sti, Spec C etc

[flukey5]

Martingale said:

There is ZERO chance it will cost us £27,700 here in the UK brand new, you can quote me on it.

Copying and pasting my reply on the other thread:
The performance version in Japan is 4.56 million yen which translates to ~ £31,000

Based on that here's a method to indicate how much it could be in the UK:
A brand new Toyota Supra in Japan is 4,990,741 yen which translates to £34,800. In the UK it starts at £52,700

That's the sort of difference we're dealing with. In the case of the Supra it's 51% more expensive for us in the UK. So applying the percentage nets us £46,000. While I don't think it'll be that much it won't be far off.
I'll be surprise if this Yaris (performance version) comes in below £40,000

It will be more than £27,700 but your supra logic is flawed. There's a JDM-only spec 4 cylinder supra which starts at the low price you quoted here. The straight 6 variant is much closer in price to the 52k figure.

[A1VDY]

Looks good. Just a shame it has the same name as the std shopping car as its nothing like a std yaris.
Once the tuners get hold of this it's going to be producing 350hp+..

[rossub]

Martingale said:

I think you really underestimate what people are willing to spend. If Ford can sell an R5 Fiesta for €180,000 or used Porsche 911R selling for 500k plus which 99% identical to a GT3, a unique WRC homologated Yaris, with bespoke engine, body, with aluminium and carbon parts, where NOTHING on the market directly compares to etc will no have trouble selling even at £45k. Just because you won't.

EDIT: I GUARANTEE if it was limited to 100 at £45k they would be sold out before landing. I am 100% certain this will be more than £35k, want to put your money where you mouth is and bet me on it?

Well no, because I wouldn't be surprised if the 'Circuit Pack' version was the wrong side of £35k either. Just not £45k

[big_rob_sydney]

mooseracer said:

+3

And I remember standard Scoobys understeering good and proper, certainly not 'handling' well.

Scoobies were deliberately released with understeer, because it was safer for inexperienced drivers. This could easily be rectified by something like a Whiteline adjustable sway bar, which was pretty inexpensive if one was inclined to modify their car.

I never had any problems with any of my Scoobies understeering though, and can pretty happily say they were incredibly quick point to point across a B road.

[Kolbenkopp]

832ark said:

Looks awesome! Article states PS4 tyres but has PS4Ss fitted in the photos in a size which doesn’t appear to be currently available. New vehicle specific development by Michelin?

Good spot that!

[Dave Hedgehog]

big_rob_sydney said:

Scoobies were deliberately released with understeer, because it was safer for inexperienced drivers. This could easily be rectified by something like a Whiteline adjustable sway bar, which was pretty inexpensive if one was inclined to modify their car.

I never had any problems with any of my Scoobies understeering though, and can pretty happily say they were incredibly quick point to point across a B road.

just adopt a slow in fast out approach to the apex, really enjoyed my scoobies even with the mini cab interior

[Nimerino]

I can’t remember the last new car that made me obsessed with driving it. It’s shocking that a Yaris is the one to change that pattern.

I put my order in with my dealer the moment they released that picture of the camouflaged car doing a big skid on a track. I see it is a more focused replacement for my beloved and dearly departed manual Golf VII R. Just hope they’re sensible with the suspension.

[blearyeyedboy]

big_rob_sydney said:

.
I hate to have to ask, but don't you all think that with 26 years of advances in things like mandatory safety developments, improved fuel efficiency and reduced emissions

Fixed that for you.
I have sympathy for your view but against the context of 26 years of cultural changes and market forces making these things very hard to bring to market, this is a tour de force.

This isn't an advance because it's something new. It's a phenomenal achievement because against all the odds, it has been the result of a large corporation being motivated by petrolheads and not bean counters, and against all the odds and red tape they have fought tooth and nail to preserve something very old and precious.

This is at risk of being Last Of The Mohicans. Celebrate it before it's lost forever.

[quigonjay]

flukey5 said:

Martingale said:

There is ZERO chance it will cost us £27,700 here in the UK brand new, you can quote me on it.

Copying and pasting my reply on the other thread:
The performance version in Japan is 4.56 million yen which translates to ~ £31,000

Based on that here's a method to indicate how much it could be in the UK:
A brand new Toyota Supra in Japan is 4,990,741 yen which translates to £34,800. In the UK it starts at £52,700

That's the sort of difference we're dealing with. In the case of the Supra it's 51% more expensive for us in the UK. So applying the percentage nets us £46,000. While I don't think it'll be that much it won't be far off.
I'll be surprise if this Yaris (performance version) comes in below £40,000

It will be more than £27,700 but your supra logic is flawed. There's a JDM-only spec 4 cylinder supra which starts at the low price you quoted here. The straight 6 variant is much closer in price to the 52k figure.

The RZ which is the one closest to the UK spec car is 7027778 yen/£49086

[Gandahar]

I guess the PH crew are bored of 700bhp 2.5 tonne cars then .....


It would have been interesting to see the guesses on what car this could possibly be 1 year back if this was shown?

I just hope it can live up to the hype.

Even that last sentence is slightly nuts, that I am writing it ....

Edited by Gandahar on Friday 10th January 15:52

[Johnnytheboy]

Gandahar said:

Even that last sentence is slightly nuts, that I am writing it ....