Are Lexus just rebadged Toyotas?
Poll: Are Lexus just rebadged Toyotas?
Total Members Polled: 253
Discussion
This came up on another thread.
Back in the late eighties Toyota decided to create a luxury brand because, particularly outside Japan, they presumably correctly perceived that some people are snobs and are less prepared to buy a luxury car from a manufacturer that also makes small runarounds. Other Japanese manufacturers did the same.
In Japan their luxury cars continued to be badged as Toyotas until 2005 so presumably one of the most famous Lexus and one that established the brand outside Japan - the LS400 - was badged a Toyota.
In my mind Lexus are just rebadged Toyotas and it is pure marketing puff. They are made by Toyota, the CEO is the same and they don’t have a prior existence or history. That they are sold by separate dealers is just part of their marketing plan.
I would put MINI in the same category. They are just BMWs. If you have driven a new Mini you have a BMW. Designed, developed, planned and signed off by BMW. But with a clever marketing plan to play on people’s memory of the original Mini.
I think other cases are more difficult. Lamborghini has been part of the VW group for some time and there is sharing of parts and overall management from VW. Yet they did exist separately before the takeover. They possibly fall between the two stools, not being a full manufacturer yet more than just a brand.
Back in the late eighties Toyota decided to create a luxury brand because, particularly outside Japan, they presumably correctly perceived that some people are snobs and are less prepared to buy a luxury car from a manufacturer that also makes small runarounds. Other Japanese manufacturers did the same.
In Japan their luxury cars continued to be badged as Toyotas until 2005 so presumably one of the most famous Lexus and one that established the brand outside Japan - the LS400 - was badged a Toyota.
In my mind Lexus are just rebadged Toyotas and it is pure marketing puff. They are made by Toyota, the CEO is the same and they don’t have a prior existence or history. That they are sold by separate dealers is just part of their marketing plan.
I would put MINI in the same category. They are just BMWs. If you have driven a new Mini you have a BMW. Designed, developed, planned and signed off by BMW. But with a clever marketing plan to play on people’s memory of the original Mini.
I think other cases are more difficult. Lamborghini has been part of the VW group for some time and there is sharing of parts and overall management from VW. Yet they did exist separately before the takeover. They possibly fall between the two stools, not being a full manufacturer yet more than just a brand.
Not sure if serious.
But having spent a bit of time with the original Lexus, the LS400, there is no way it shared anything with any “western” Toyota. You couldn’t buy a “Toyota LS400” here so what does it matter.
We could get into a deeply philosophical discussion about what makes a car a car I suppose.
But having spent a bit of time with the original Lexus, the LS400, there is no way it shared anything with any “western” Toyota. You couldn’t buy a “Toyota LS400” here so what does it matter.
We could get into a deeply philosophical discussion about what makes a car a car I suppose.
No.
If you sit in a Toyota Auris then sit in a Lexus CT you will realise the quality difference is night and day, despite being based on the same car.
Yes they used to sell Lexus as Toyotas in Japan but you could also buy a Toyota century in Japan which was a tier above the LS. The Japanese market is a very odd setup
If you sit in a Toyota Auris then sit in a Lexus CT you will realise the quality difference is night and day, despite being based on the same car.
Yes they used to sell Lexus as Toyotas in Japan but you could also buy a Toyota century in Japan which was a tier above the LS. The Japanese market is a very odd setup
No they aren’t just rebadged Toyotas given the fact that no Lexus and Toyota look the same.
They do however share many parts and on my Lexus the doors are even stamped Toyota.
ETA I’ve just remembered I’m wrong, some Lexus’ and Toyota’s are the same but I believe only in Japan.
They do however share many parts and on my Lexus the doors are even stamped Toyota.
ETA I’ve just remembered I’m wrong, some Lexus’ and Toyota’s are the same but I believe only in Japan.
Edited by SAS Tom on Friday 4th February 23:06
SAS Tom said:
No they aren’t just rebadged Toyotas given the fact that no Lexus and Toyota look the same.
They do however share many parts and on my Lexus the doors are even stamped Toyota.
ETA I’ve just remembered I’m wrong, some Lexus’ and Toyota’s are the same but I believe only in Japan.
So they are designed by Toyota. Built by Toyota, but at the factory they put on a Lexus badge and hey presto, now its a Lexus which apparently is not a Toyota. They do however share many parts and on my Lexus the doors are even stamped Toyota.
ETA I’ve just remembered I’m wrong, some Lexus’ and Toyota’s are the same but I believe only in Japan.
Edited by SAS Tom on Friday 4th February 23:06
Clearly their marketing BS is working on some people.
I don’t have any against Toyota, quite the opposite. I’d be no more or less likely to buy a Lexus if it wore a Toyota badge.
Esceptico said:
Dingu said:
Similarly a VW is just a Skoda OP?
Probably. Skoda existed before it was taken over by VW but I am not sure there is much carryover from Skoda pre VW to current Skodas that seem quite closely related to VW models (same chassis, same engines, etc). Esceptico said:
So they are designed by Toyota. Built by Toyota, but at the factory they put on a Lexus badge and hey presto, now its a Lexus which apparently is not a Toyota.
Clearly their marketing BS is working on some people.
yep. bit like that VW Chiron and Skoda Huracan.Clearly their marketing BS is working on some people.
what you sit on, touch and electronically interact with on a Lexus is different to a Toyota, even if they share the TGNA platform for example. that's what 99% of people judge a car by.
CABC said:
yep. bit like that VW Chiron and Skoda Huracan.
what you sit on, touch and electronically interact with on a Lexus is different to a Toyota, even if they share the TGNA platform for example. that's what 99% of people judge a car by.
Never mind the fact that Toyota only lets senior engineers and assembly workers touch Lexus. There’s a lot more to it but people struggle to see past it and enjoy driving their unreliable German cars with plastic cooling systems and broken engines. what you sit on, touch and electronically interact with on a Lexus is different to a Toyota, even if they share the TGNA platform for example. that's what 99% of people judge a car by.
CABC said:
Esceptico said:
So they are designed by Toyota. Built by Toyota, but at the factory they put on a Lexus badge and hey presto, now its a Lexus which apparently is not a Toyota.
Clearly their marketing BS is working on some people.
yep. bit like that VW Chiron and Skoda Huracan.Clearly their marketing BS is working on some people.
what you sit on, touch and electronically interact with on a Lexus is different to a Toyota, even if they share the TGNA platform for example. that's what 99% of people judge a car by.
I have over in the USA a 2011 Toyota Avalon a front wheel drive 3.6 L saloon built upon the Lexus LS chassis. In the UK we as a family have had an LS400 which covered well over 110K, an LS430 Which covered over 48K and an LS 460 which has 53K on the clock. I have also had a GS430. There is NO WAY a Lexus is a re budget Toyota. It is similar to saying an Alpina is a re badged BMW. It is the subtle differences that stand out, from fit and trim through to ICE and the silence, in addition to the servicing and dealership experience. The Lexus brand is so superior to that of Toyota that the link is tenuous these days and in the USA and UK you will NOT see a Toyota Dealer near a Lexus Dealer. Now Lexus UK may not sell many cars but they do sell hundreds of SUV's. in the USA Lexus sells thousands of cars a month and many more SUV's. I can imagine they outsell Audi in the USA and may even outsell BMW and M-B with regard to SUV's and large saloons.
Esceptico said:
CABC said:
Esceptico said:
So they are designed by Toyota. Built by Toyota, but at the factory they put on a Lexus badge and hey presto, now its a Lexus which apparently is not a Toyota.
Clearly their marketing BS is working on some people.
yep. bit like that VW Chiron and Skoda Huracan.Clearly their marketing BS is working on some people.
what you sit on, touch and electronically interact with on a Lexus is different to a Toyota, even if they share the TGNA platform for example. that's what 99% of people judge a car by.
And your example of a Mini just being a BMW? I reckon you could probably get a more accurate generalisation in saying those front wheel drive BMW's are just Minis....!
Esceptico said:
So they are designed by Toyota. Built by Toyota, but at the factory they put on a Lexus badge and hey presto, now its a Lexus which apparently is not a Toyota.
Clearly their marketing BS is working on some people.
I don’t have any against Toyota, quite the opposite. I’d be no more or less likely to buy a Lexus if it wore a Toyota badge.
If your measure is simply the parent group and who's on the title deeds of the factory then sure it's a posh Toyota.Clearly their marketing BS is working on some people.
I don’t have any against Toyota, quite the opposite. I’d be no more or less likely to buy a Lexus if it wore a Toyota badge.
I've owned a Lexus IS before and drive several Toyota's through work and the difference in quality and refinement is night and day so by that measure I'd say far from it.
If you think it's marketing BS just don't buy one I guess.
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