Are Lexus just rebadged Toyotas?

[Bennet]

Esceptico said:

my use of the word “just” in the title of the thread has put all the Lexus owners on here on the defensive.

Your use of the word "re-badged" has made the only correct answer to the question "no".

[KTMsm]

In the same way as Skoda are rebadged Audi / VW

Lexus are built to Lexus rules, Toyota are built to Toyota rules, same with Skoda and VW

I've never bought into badges, I buy the car I like

I love my MX5 it's an iconic car but before that point Mazda had made total st IMO with the obvious exception being the RX7

[kurokawa]

We have luxury Toyota like Crown, I believe they sold as Lexus GS export?

I have owned a IS300h, it is definitely much nicer than the Corolla they give me as courtesy car.

Yeah it is a Toyota under the skin, but much nicer build just like Audi VW, BMW Mini, Genesis Hyundai etc

[ATG]

Bennet said:

Esceptico said:

my use of the word “just” in the title of the thread has put all the Lexus owners on here on the defensive.

Your use of the word "re-badged" has made the only correct answer to the question "no".

Eh?

Lexus is just a brand. Acuras are Hondas. Lexussss are Toyotas. Blah, blah, blah. VWs, Audis, Skodas, Seats ... all the same thing. Anyone who worries about the brand rather than the thing itself ... well.

[swisstoni]

ATG said:

Bennet said:

Esceptico said:

my use of the word “just” in the title of the thread has put all the Lexus owners on here on the defensive.

Your use of the word "re-badged" has made the only correct answer to the question "no".

Eh?

Lexus is just a brand. Acuras are Hondas. Lexussss are Toyotas. Blah, blah, blah. VWs, Audis, Skodas, Seats ... all the same thing. Anyone who worries about the brand rather than the thing itself ... well.

Have you read the thread at all?

[Bennet]

If someone could show me where I can buy an LC500 with a Toyota badge on the front for 2/3rds of the price I'd be very grateful.

[mikey_b]

Esceptico said:

I think my use of the word “just” in the title of the thread has put all the Lexus owners on here on the defensive. In retrospect a poor choice of word on my part as no slight to Lexus cars was intended.

Clearly Toyota don’t make two identical cars any more and put a Toyota badge on one and a Lexus badge on the other. That would be stupid because the whole point of Lexus is to put a distance between ordinary Toyotas and luxury Toyotas ie Lexus (plural of Lexus = Lexi?)

Some people pointing out that Lexus are different from Toyotas is missing the point. Of course they are different. They are the luxury cars made by Toyota. Buyers spending £100k have completely different expectations than someone spending £20k. If I buy a base 1 series I don’t expect the same quality than if I were buying the top 7 series.

‘Rebadged’ is usually taken to mean a car available from one brand but badged and sold as another. Since there is almost no overlap between Toyota and Lexus models, and Lexus are built and finished to a much higher standard by separate engineering teams, then the answer to your question is a very clear No, they are not rebadged Toyotas.

Your whole post above sounds like you didn’t like the fact few people agreed with your premise, so you’re now pretending that the poor response is just ‘Lexus owners on the defensive’. I think a better interpretation is simply that most people don’t agree with you because it’s nonsense, and your shoehorning in a Alan Partridge joke is just a demonstration that you don’t like Lexus cars yourself. Fine, don’t buy one.

Rather than ‘rebadged Toyotas’, a better way of looking at Lexus is ‘the worlds largest car company when it tries really hard’.

[aka_kerrly]

The two brands serve different customers, in Japan Toyota tend to make the more sporty variant & lexus the comfier classier model. Although the cars may look similar it's the little touches that can make the biggest differences.

I have examples of a Lexus IS200 and a Toyota Altezza, one is a grandad spec car with a smooth 6 cylinder engine, auto box, leather interior, one is a hooligan spec car with a 4cylinder engine running over 8000rpm, shorter final drive & closer gears, bolstered cloth seats, different suspension/geometry and 200kg lighter.

It's hard to describe just how different the two cars are!

[348jeff]

I'd say 'Yes' but as a Lexus Owner I have zero problem with that as Toyota are a good brand in themselves and it was partly from owning a number of MR2s that got me interested in a Lexus. I's class them as a premium brand within Toyota.

On the very few occasions I have had to buy parts for my IS250 any genuine parts come in a bag with a Toyota label and part number on.

Further when I went to the main Lexus dealer in Liverpool to buy a part for my car they sent me to the parts counter next door at the Toyota dealer.

If you check out www.toyodiy.com for parts for your Lexus you can see they share the same parts catalogue. Just as a random example see the aplication list for a particular part below

[Bennet]

348jeff said:

I'd class them as a premium brand within Toyota.

So would I. If the question had been "Is Lexus a premium brand within Toyota?", the poll would have been 100% "yes".

[Dr Jekyll]

There are some who argue that the original BMW 1 series was a Rover product which got as far as a prototype before BMW decided to offload Rover.


Was a Bristol just a rebadged BMW? Certainly started off that way

[ATG]

swisstoni said:

ATG said:

Bennet said:

Esceptico said:

my use of the word “just” in the title of the thread has put all the Lexus owners on here on the defensive.

Your use of the word "re-badged" has made the only correct answer to the question "no".

Eh?

Lexus is just a brand. Acuras are Hondas. Lexussss are Toyotas. Blah, blah, blah. VWs, Audis, Skodas, Seats ... all the same thing. Anyone who worries about the brand rather than the thing itself ... well.

Have you read the thread at all?

Yes, I have, thanks.

[donkmeister]

348jeff said:

I'd say 'Yes' but as a Lexus Owner I have zero problem with that as Toyota are a good brand in themselves and it was partly from owning a number of MR2s that got me interested in a Lexus. I's class them as a premium brand within Toyota.

On the very few occasions I have had to buy parts for my IS250 any genuine parts come in a bag with a Toyota label and part number on.

Further when I went to the main Lexus dealer in Liverpool to buy a part for my car they sent me to the parts counter next door at the Toyota dealer.

If you check out www.toyodiy.com for parts for your Lexus you can see they share the same parts catalogue. Just as a random example see the aplication list for a particular part below

Total thread deviation but thanks for that - I've been totally unable to find a decent EPC for my Lexus but this is good.

Wonder if anyone has compared the UK and US engine parts to find out specifically which bits are replaced on the LS460 for E85 compatibility I've always assumed aluminium fuel rails are the culprit.

(ETA LS460 - in case my comment had anyone frantically searching if their Lexus could be used with E10... LS460s are not compatible with E10, and they did a recall in the US due to engine issues from running on E85)

Edited by donkmeister on Saturday 5th February 15:32

[Danum Alba]

I used to have an Lexus IS300h, when i was looking at changing I considered the Lexus ES and Toyota Camry, I looked at them as basically the same car.
On looks and interior, I actually prefered the Camry to the ES.

When I had my Lexus, on a couple of occasions people tried to rile me up by saying that it was a glorified Toyota, always fell flat when I agreed

Vince

[Snow and Rocks]

I quite fancy a Camry as a comfortable, anonymous, reliable and cheap to run barge but they aren't depreciating nearly as quickly as I expected. An older Lexus GS in old man spec and colours might have to do instead!

[AmyRichardson]

The term "rebadged" brings to mind a very direct likeness, e.g. a Crown Vic and a Grand Marquis (exactly the same, aside from the badge) - which clearly isn't the case with Lexus/Toyota, the in-group brand management is clearly better than that.

But equally they're clearly group products, shared components, technologies and shared facilities.

The notion that Lexus have unique/special is something that's much more robustly maintained in Europe, right down to the QC blarny. In other markets there are cars like the Crown (which in its last iteration was at least as GS as a Superb is Passat) and the LX (Landcruiser + grille + leather) and Century, which make the relationship far less binary.

[dvs_dave]

It’s not a question with a binary answer.

Their SUV’s all have a Toyota platform mate. The saloons and coupes though are all unique to Lexus, bar the ES.

But if you want it boiled down to a misrepresenting and binary yes/no, the answer clearly has to be ‘no’.

[StRemy]

Lexus cars were sold as Toyotas in Japan because the brand wasn’t introduced there until 2007 (?), then the differentiation started although obviously there will always be shared platforms/parts in certain models.

[swisstoni]

ATG said:

swisstoni said:

ATG said:

Bennet said:

Esceptico said:

my use of the word “just” in the title of the thread has put all the Lexus owners on here on the defensive.

Your use of the word "re-badged" has made the only correct answer to the question "no".

Eh?

Lexus is just a brand. Acuras are Hondas. Lexussss are Toyotas. Blah, blah, blah. VWs, Audis, Skodas, Seats ... all the same thing. Anyone who worries about the brand rather than the thing itself ... well.

Have you read the thread at all?

Yes, I have, thanks.

Well you’ve not ended up with the right conclusion given the evidence.

[CraigyMc]

bhstewie said:

Esceptico said:

So they are designed by Toyota. Built by Toyota, but at the factory they put on a Lexus badge and hey presto, now its a Lexus which apparently is not a Toyota.

Clearly their marketing BS is working on some people.

I don’t have any against Toyota, quite the opposite. I’d be no more or less likely to buy a Lexus if it wore a Toyota badge.

If your measure is simply the parent group and who's on the title deeds of the factory then sure it's a posh Toyota.

I've owned a Lexus IS before and drive several Toyota's through work and the difference in quality and refinement is night and day so by that measure I'd say far from it.

If you think it's marketing BS just don't buy one I guess.

Funnily enough, the IS200 = Toyota Altezza, except in markets where they didn't sell the Altezza, like for example the UK. Likewise, the LS400 was the Toyota Celsior.

For a Honda equivalent, see also the Acura NSX, which was called an Acura NSX in North America and a Honda NSX practically everywhere else.
For a Nissan equivalent, see the Infiniti brand.

The badge "Lexus" is just an alternative to "Toyota". WIthout Toyota, there would be no Lexus.
It's not to say that these Lexus-branded cars aren't engineered to a different spec, of course they have larger/more expensive motors and the like, and probably different, better tolerances than the cheap, mass-production stuff, but they are Toyota engineered and even if they were toyota-badged, they'd have the same higher specs as the cheaper cars.

Another way of looking at this is just to say - of all the Lexus models, there's only one I can think of (the LFA) that doesn't have a direct Toyota-branded twin. Does anyone know another?

As to why they are called Lexus rather than Toyota - that's just marketing. People spending £100K on a Lexus LX SUV didn't buy a Toyota Sequoia because they wanted a Lexus badge rather than a Toyota one.

Ford tried this in a half-hearted way with the VIgnale brand (give us 1.5x for a mondeo with fancy gold paint!)
Merc do something similar with Maybach, which is mechanically an S-class LWB.
BMW bought rolls and effectively build something like what would be a 9-series and call it the phantom.