Alpine A110 owners
Discussion
Meonstoke said:
Peter.R said:
I agree with the above, I also design gearboxes but for industrial applications and not automotive.
we aim for 10,000 hours life, based on the bearing life and also the gear life (tooth wear rather than outright gear failure) the duty cycle in industry is quite different though as a machine can be running full speed and 90% torque hour after hour, this just doesn't happen with cars.
I would think that the manufacturers 'torque caution' isn't necessarily down to the gears/ bearings failing and maybe more to do with the clutches. My PE is remapped and i think much of the problem with the Alpine set up is that it tries to be too smooth in Auto, and i guess reduces the clutch pressures to allow a certain amount of slip during gear changes, the Gearbox is calibrated to the expected input torque and once the engine is remapped the numbers don't add up. If i floor the throttle to overtake from a previously light throttle the clutches slip, if i change down or blip the throttle moments before i need to overtake i don't get any slip as i expect the clutch pressures are ramped up in these circumstances. I think this is the area that needs more investigation and tweaking, along with the engine remap, my feeling is the clutch life is the area of concern and this could be helped with remapping the gearbox software, maybe even altering pump / internal pressures. It would be interesting to chat to someone who knows more about the workings of these boxes.
Indeed, this explains why Alpine also remapped the transmission software...and not just the engine ECU. I like the idea of the latest Life110 remap (after the extended warranty has expired) but l’d want the gearbox remapped too. I hope this becomes a Life110 option too in the future.we aim for 10,000 hours life, based on the bearing life and also the gear life (tooth wear rather than outright gear failure) the duty cycle in industry is quite different though as a machine can be running full speed and 90% torque hour after hour, this just doesn't happen with cars.
I would think that the manufacturers 'torque caution' isn't necessarily down to the gears/ bearings failing and maybe more to do with the clutches. My PE is remapped and i think much of the problem with the Alpine set up is that it tries to be too smooth in Auto, and i guess reduces the clutch pressures to allow a certain amount of slip during gear changes, the Gearbox is calibrated to the expected input torque and once the engine is remapped the numbers don't add up. If i floor the throttle to overtake from a previously light throttle the clutches slip, if i change down or blip the throttle moments before i need to overtake i don't get any slip as i expect the clutch pressures are ramped up in these circumstances. I think this is the area that needs more investigation and tweaking, along with the engine remap, my feeling is the clutch life is the area of concern and this could be helped with remapping the gearbox software, maybe even altering pump / internal pressures. It would be interesting to chat to someone who knows more about the workings of these boxes.
Worth noting there are two types of slip being discussed here:
a) Deliberate slip when pulling away from standstill/changing gears, part of normal DSG maps, there to make pullaway and shifting smoother (like any friction clutch)
b) Slip under load, when the torque capacity of the clutches is being exceeded
As I understand it the revised Life110 map does not change the mapping of a), but avoids b) via clever mapping of the torque curve to suit the existing gearbox map.
I don't know what was revised in the gearbox mapping of recent cars, or whether it is there to change a) or b).
a) Deliberate slip when pulling away from standstill/changing gears, part of normal DSG maps, there to make pullaway and shifting smoother (like any friction clutch)
b) Slip under load, when the torque capacity of the clutches is being exceeded
As I understand it the revised Life110 map does not change the mapping of a), but avoids b) via clever mapping of the torque curve to suit the existing gearbox map.
I don't know what was revised in the gearbox mapping of recent cars, or whether it is there to change a) or b).
Simon Owen said:
I’m sure I have read somewhere that gearbox software “re-mapping” or however you describe this is now possible.
Litchfield's revised map (which I think came out around the same time that Life110 changed their mapping partner) mentions that it includes a "gearbox calibration" update as well. My car has the original Life110 map at the moment and while I've not noticed any slip so far it's obviously enough of a concern that two parties have changed their maps to address it, and that gives me pause. I do also think I'd prefer the more linear torque build that the later maps have. Bombjack said:
Litchfield's revised map (which I think came out around the same time that Life110 changed their mapping partner) mentions that it includes a "gearbox calibration" update as well. My car has the original Life110 map at the moment and while I've not noticed any slip so far it's obviously enough of a concern that two parties have changed their maps to address it, and that gives me pause. I do also think I'd prefer the more linear torque build that the later maps have.
My PE does not appreciably slip on the current Life110 map. The temperatures for the EDC clutch on the Telematics only rise a little on change, and drop straight back down. In an earlier version of the map it did slip and the temps spiked markedly, but this was only for a brief moment on a test run before some parameters were altered by Peter who does the mapping. I have an early PE car.It does however have some map sensitivity or weirdness - if I come off boost in 3rd after accelerating then occasionally the engine will rev out a bit - almost like you dipped the clutch in a manual and touched the throttle. It's not slip, the temps are stable, it happens when the clutch is disengaged. Its the kind of thing that happens in real-world driving, where you decide to lift off. it is also less 'boosty' feeling in the mid-range sometimes.
HTH
dajw said:
My PE does not appreciably slip on the current Life110 map. The temperatures for the EDC clutch on the Telematics only rise a little on change, and drop straight back down. In an earlier version of the map it did slip and the temps spiked markedly, but this was only for a brief moment on a test run before some parameters were altered by Peter who does the mapping. I have an early PE car.
It does however have some map sensitivity or weirdness - if I come off boost in 3rd after accelerating then occasionally the engine will rev out a bit - almost like you dipped the clutch in a manual and touched the throttle. It's not slip, the temps are stable, it happens when the clutch is disengaged. Its the kind of thing that happens in real-world driving, where you decide to lift off. it is also less 'boosty' feeling in the mid-range sometimes.
I can't comment on the Life110 or any other A110 map, but my concern with aftermarket maps for any car is if they present occasional small issues in normal road driving, then what happens if you take it to say Nurburgring Touristenfahrten on a hot 30deg summers day and attempt a few consecutive laps flat out, will it crap itself?It does however have some map sensitivity or weirdness - if I come off boost in 3rd after accelerating then occasionally the engine will rev out a bit - almost like you dipped the clutch in a manual and touched the throttle. It's not slip, the temps are stable, it happens when the clutch is disengaged. Its the kind of thing that happens in real-world driving, where you decide to lift off. it is also less 'boosty' feeling in the mid-range sometimes.
Olivera said:
I can't comment on the Life110 or any other A110 map, but my concern with aftermarket maps for any car is if they present occasional small issues in normal road driving, then what happens if you take it to say Nurburgring Touristenfahrten on a hot 30deg summers day and attempt a few consecutive laps flat out, will it crap itself?
Depends on who specifies the map. I trust David, because of the amount of testing he does - and clearly there's a lot of it!There is a modified A110 in this years gumball: https://www.instagram.com/gumball_gendarmerie/
Thought it was quite cool to see how small it looks vs other cars over in the USA.
Thought it was quite cool to see how small it looks vs other cars over in the USA.
Edited by PaulJC84 on Wednesday 1st June 09:14
PaulJC84 said:
There is a modified A110 in this years gumball: https://www.instagram.com/gumball_gendarmerie/
Thought it was quite cool to see how small it looks vs other cars over in the USA.
Thought it was quite cool to see how small it looks vs other cars over in the USA.
[quote=Juffled]Anyone changed the rear pads/discs?
Is it a calliper off the upright or a caliber split? And what’s the deal with the EPB just wind it in or is there some electronic/computer magic required? Not encountered the rear type of calliper before.
Front is easy enough.[/quote
Yes, straight forward enough
If you leave the parking off , you can then do the rear pad change . We use the diag tool to put it into maintenance mode. Same thing really. There is a manual way of maintenance mode , but will confirm it before putting it up.
It quite a straightforward job.
I would recommend people leave parking brake off whilst washing the cars, and don’t wash whilst brake are hot.
Is it a calliper off the upright or a caliber split? And what’s the deal with the EPB just wind it in or is there some electronic/computer magic required? Not encountered the rear type of calliper before.
Front is easy enough.[/quote
Yes, straight forward enough
If you leave the parking off , you can then do the rear pad change . We use the diag tool to put it into maintenance mode. Same thing really. There is a manual way of maintenance mode , but will confirm it before putting it up.
It quite a straightforward job.
I would recommend people leave parking brake off whilst washing the cars, and don’t wash whilst brake are hot.
AlpineGuy said:
Yes, straight forward enough
If you leave the parking off , you can then do the rear pad change . We use the diag tool to put it into maintenance mode. Same thing really. There is a manual way of maintenance mode , but will confirm it before putting it up.
It quite a straightforward job.
I would recommend people leave parking brake off whilst washing the cars, and don’t wash whilst brake are hot.
Had a poke around, parking brake off, rear wheel can turn a bit so its clear of the brake, remove the top slider bolt (6mm hex one), then the thing is still rigid so I presume I need to remove the lower 8mm hex as well, and lift the caliper off (as opposed to swivel it round on the large bolt), need to find my short breaker bar I think as the 8mm was quite tight!If you leave the parking off , you can then do the rear pad change . We use the diag tool to put it into maintenance mode. Same thing really. There is a manual way of maintenance mode , but will confirm it before putting it up.
It quite a straightforward job.
I would recommend people leave parking brake off whilst washing the cars, and don’t wash whilst brake are hot.
for reference:
manaul park brake procedure is as this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntBqN2gNmPo&ab...
The FAR website is great if a touch french.
manaul park brake procedure is as this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntBqN2gNmPo&ab...
The FAR website is great if a touch french.
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