Alpine A110 to be axed?

[Miserablegit]

Blib said:

Slightly O/T.

I bought my Alpine GTA in 1989.

Iirc, during that whole year Renault sold a total of 93 GTAs.

Worldwide.

Can I just say thank you for buying it! I always wanted an Alpine but they had stopped selling them by the time I could buy one. Fast fwd quite a bit and as soon as I saw the new A110 was being made in RHD ( thanks to the ongoing supporters of the brand like you no doubt) they had my money.

Alpine took the fight to Porsche and showed them how to build a lightweight sportscar. They didn’t fail - Many of the vociferous Porsche crowd on here are the gold Rolex, wine bar brigade who “brought the Porsche” to the golf club today.

The fact Porsche had to drop in a 4.0 6-pot in response is telling. I don’t mind them doing that - it’s great to have more choice but I’d still not swap an A110 for a 4.0 Cayster. Yes it’s got a 6 pot 4.0 which is a massive plus point but it’s a lot heavier and that power is squandered by the mass it has to move / internal politics dictating gearing.

If Alpine had sold it in manual only then they would probably have sold fewer cars. I think most Porsche are sold in PdK form and manual makes up about 10%. Not worth the extra cost for 10% more sales when anticipated volumes are so low anyway.

Any car enthusiast should celebrate the arrival of a challenger as it potentially improves their favoured manufacturer’s product.
It would be great if Porsche tried to make lighter cars but they clearly sell enough of the current platform not to need to change. That doesn’t make them the best from an engineering / fun ( as I view it) perspective.

[CABC]

Miserablegit said:

Can I just say thank you for buying it! I always wanted an Alpine but they had stopped selling them by the time I could buy one. Fast fwd quite a bit and as soon as I saw the new A110 was being made in RHD ( thanks to the ongoing supporters of the brand like you no doubt) they had my money.

Alpine took the fight to Porsche and showed them how to build a lightweight sportscar. They didn’t fail - Many of the vociferous Porsche crowd on here are the gold Rolex, wine bar brigade who “brought the Porsche” to the golf club today.

The fact Porsche had to drop in a 4.0 6-pot in response is telling. I don’t mind them doing that - it’s great to have more choice but I’d still not swap an A110 for a 4.0 Cayster. Yes it’s got a 6 pot 4.0 which is a massive plus point but it’s a lot heavier and that power is squandered by the mass it has to move / internal politics dictating gearing.

If Alpine had sold it in manual only then they would probably have sold fewer cars. I think most Porsche are sold in PdK form and manual makes up about 10%. Not worth the extra cost for 10% more sales when anticipated volumes are so low anyway.

Any car enthusiast should celebrate the arrival of a challenger as it potentially improves their favoured manufacturer’s product.
It would be great if Porsche tried to make lighter cars but they clearly sell enough of the current platform not to need to change. That doesn’t make them the best from an engineering / fun ( as I view it) perspective.

exactly.
competition and choice should be celebrated. it gave us both a lightweight sports car and a glorious 4.0 na flat 6.

reminds me of America's Chicken Tax and its affect on light trucks.

[blueg33]

Miserablegit said:

Can I just say thank you for buying it! I always wanted an Alpine but they had stopped selling them by the time I could buy one. Fast fwd quite a bit and as soon as I saw the new A110 was being made in RHD ( thanks to the ongoing supporters of the brand like you no doubt) they had my money.

Alpine took the fight to Porsche and showed them how to build a lightweight sportscar. They didn’t fail - Many of the vociferous Porsche crowd on here are the gold Rolex, wine bar brigade who “brought the Porsche” to the golf club today.

The fact Porsche had to drop in a 4.0 6-pot in response is telling. I don’t mind them doing that - it’s great to have more choice but I’d still not swap an A110 for a 4.0 Cayster. Yes it’s got a 6 pot 4.0 which is a massive plus point but it’s a lot heavier and that power is squandered by the mass it has to move / internal politics dictating gearing.

If Alpine had sold it in manual only then they would probably have sold fewer cars. I think most Porsche are sold in PdK form and manual makes up about 10%. Not worth the extra cost for 10% more sales when anticipated volumes are so low anyway.

Any car enthusiast should celebrate the arrival of a challenger as it potentially improves their favoured manufacturer’s product.
It would be great if Porsche tried to make lighter cars but they clearly sell enough of the current platform not to need to change. That doesn’t make them the best from an engineering / fun ( as I view it) perspective.

You are right about the Porsche Gearbox that people actually buy. Looking at use 718's on the PH ads there are 115 for sale of which only 22 are manual, so less than 20%.

The Alpine does have some sales problems here in the UK especially because:

a. Weak marketing
b. Wrong badge
c. Marmite looks

Its a car that typically will appeal to the enthusiast as most of the population have no idea what one is, and maybe a higher than normal proportion of enthusiasts want a manual box.

But I bet most of the detractors here on this enthusiasts website have dismissed it without even driving it because its not a Porsche and has a paddleshift (despite as evidenced here they buy PDK Porsches) which is a shame, because they have missed something special as a drivers car that virtually nothing comes close to, and I say that as a Lotus owner.

As I frequently say - sometimes I think this website should be called Badgeheads

[nickfrog]

The Hypno-Toad said:

NO!!!!!! You can't do this, my lottery numbers haven't come in yet!! NO!!!!!!

Funny how even more relevant your post has become as the thread flows its natural flow, fed by those who are not in this market, will probably never be in it yet insist on having an irrelevant opinion.

[Lexington59]

nickfrog said:

Funny how even mote relevant your post has become has the thread flows its natural flow, fed by those who are not in this market, will probably never be in it yet insist on having an irrelevant opinion.

Who that then? Sports car owners ?

[Lexington59]

blueg33 said:

You are right about the Porsche Gearbox that people actually buy. Looking at use 718's on the PH ads there are 115 for sale of which only 22 are manual, so less than 20%.

The Alpine does have some sales problems here in the UK especially because:

a. Weak marketing
b. Wrong badge
c. Marmite looks

Its a car that typically will appeal to the enthusiast as most of the population have no idea what one is, and maybe a higher than normal proportion of enthusiasts want a manual box.

But I bet most of the detractors here on this enthusiasts website have dismissed it without even driving it because its not a Porsche and has a paddleshift (despite as evidenced here they buy PDK Porsches) which is a shame, because they have missed something special as a drivers car that virtually nothing comes close to, and I say that as a Lotus owner.

As I frequently say - sometimes I think this website should be called Badgeheads

and don't forget d. Price point.

Offer a stripped out base model for a lower figure than the main competition and it would fly off the shelves (as it were) despite being the underdog. Being the underdog and also charging more ? You do the maths.

[giveitfish]

Think it got lost earlier in the thread - but at launch Alpine were only targeting 3000 total sales per year, across all markets.

That’s not a mainstream car volume, hence non-mainstream car pricing.

I’ve yet to see any evidence it’s actually a sales flop based on that target?

People posting that they never see them is to expected, it’s not a sign of failure. This is fewer cars than Mclaren produce in a year.

[Lexington59]

giveitfish said:

Think it got lost earlier in the thread - but at launch Alpine were only targeting 3000 total sales per year, across all markets.

That’s not a mainstream car volume, hence non-mainstream car pricing.

I’ve yet to see any evidence it’s actually a sales flop based on that target?

People posting that they never see them is to expected, it’s not a sign of failure. This is fewer cars than Mclaren produce in a year.

They sold 171 cars in the UK in 2019 and are probably axing it.

If that's not a sales flop (UK is 2nd largest car market in Europe after Germany), then I don't know what is.

[kambites]

Lexington59 said:

They sold 171 cars in the UK in 2019 and are probably axing it.

If that's not a sales flop (UK is 2nd largest car market in Europe after Germany), then I don't know what is.

Why would Renault care about the UK if they're selling as many cars as they intend globally? If they were aiming for 3000 a year (and I see no reason to believe otherwise), last years results were very good. This year is, um, challenging! I think we'll see a lot of otherwise successful products going out of production as companies struggle for cash-flow.

I remember wondering when they first announced it why they were bothering with RHD.

Edited by kambites on Thursday 21st May 14:49

[Olivera]

giveitfish said:

I’ve yet to see any evidence it’s actually a sales flop based on that target?

There was an article on PH a month or two ago (pre-covid?) about Alpine themselves reporting that recent sales figures were below par, hence they were slowing down investment and development of new models.

[blueg33]

Lexington59 said:

blueg33 said:

You are right about the Porsche Gearbox that people actually buy. Looking at use 718's on the PH ads there are 115 for sale of which only 22 are manual, so less than 20%.

The Alpine does have some sales problems here in the UK especially because:

a. Weak marketing
b. Wrong badge
c. Marmite looks

Its a car that typically will appeal to the enthusiast as most of the population have no idea what one is, and maybe a higher than normal proportion of enthusiasts want a manual box.

But I bet most of the detractors here on this enthusiasts website have dismissed it without even driving it because its not a Porsche and has a paddleshift (despite as evidenced here they buy PDK Porsches) which is a shame, because they have missed something special as a drivers car that virtually nothing comes close to, and I say that as a Lotus owner.

As I frequently say - sometimes I think this website should be called Badgeheads

and don't forget d. Price point.

Offer a stripped out base model for a lower figure than the main competition and it would fly off the shelves (as it were) despite being the underdog. Being the underdog and also charging more ? You do the maths.

Didn't add price, because IMO that's a red herring. There is nothing available new with this performance, handling and hand made body for any less. They sold the number of vehicles they expected to, ergo, price is about right.

The car costs more to build - thats the way low volume works, I suspect their margins are less than those on a Cayman for instance.

[kambites]

blueg33 said:

Didn't add price, because IMO that's a red herring. There is nothing available new with this performance, handling and hand made body for any less.

Is "hand made body" really a selling point? Quite the opposite I'd have thought if it's really hand made. Or do you just mean a person puts the bit of metal on the press rather than a robot doing it?

[blueg33]

kambites said:

blueg33 said:

Didn't add price, because IMO that's a red herring. There is nothing available new with this performance, handling and hand made body for any less.

Is "hand made body" really a selling point? Quite the opposite I'd have thought if it's really hand made. Or do you just mean a person puts the bit of metal on the press rather than a robot doing it?

Its not a selling point (the aluminium and light weight is), but it is a cost. If they had pressed it out of steel it wouldn't be lightweight and wouldn't meet the brief, it would be a different and probably lesser car - so actually, maybe in a way it is part of the USP

[kambites]

I agree that what it's made of is a selling point (although IMO the non-structural bits would be even better as GRP, really). "Hand made" is simply a metter of lack of economies of scale though.

[giveitfish]

Lexington59 said:

They sold 171 cars in the UK in 2019 and are probably axing it.

If that's not a sales flop (UK is 2nd largest car market in Europe after Germany), then I don't know what is.

Using the site PH use in their article (https://carsalesbase.com/europe-alpine-a110/)...

They sold 4376 last year vs a published target of 3000 per year. That’s not a flop.

Admittedly they wanted 5000 in year one (2018) and 3000 thereafter and they didn’t hit that, but they seem to have built a decent base from nothing.

[Lexington59]

giveitfish said:

Lexington59 said:

They sold 171 cars in the UK in 2019 and are probably axing it.

If that's not a sales flop (UK is 2nd largest car market in Europe after Germany), then I don't know what is.

Using the site PH use in their article (https://carsalesbase.com/europe-alpine-a110/)...

They sold 4376 last year vs a published target of 3000 per year. That’s not a flop.

Admittedly they wanted 5000 in year one (2018) and 3000 thereafter and they didn’t hit that, but they seem to have built a decent base from nothing.

So going by your numbers, how many were sold during 2018 ?

[HighwayStar]

kambites said:

blueg33 said:

Didn't add price, because IMO that's a red herring. There is nothing available new with this performance, handling and hand made body for any less.

Is "hand made body" really a selling point? Quite the opposite I'd have thought if it's really hand made. Or do you just mean a person puts the bit of metal on the press rather than a robot doing it?

Decide for yourself: Alpine A110 - How it’s made. Insight for those who think it’s at dressed up Megane too.
https://youtu.be/nkgzjoEAb-M

[HighwayStar]

untakenname said:

Fittster said:

Why wouldn't you? I can show you evidence they are reliable:

https://europe.jdpower.com/press-releases/2019-uk-...

I have had first hand evidence that they aren't reliable, had a low milege 206 in the household where both the lights and indicators worked but not both at the same time which was obviously an issue at night, was caused by the steering wheel squib connections wearing out.

Looked it up online for a fix (simple relay to run the lights direct) and was astounded that there was a multiple page thread dedicated to the same issue that had dozens of owners in the same boat, why VOSA didn't issue an urgent recall is bewildering.

Seriously! One car! You could find a scathing post like yours about any other manufactures cars in many PH threads. And the google as you did and find folk with those same issues.
In the past I’ve had a 205 GTi 1.9, notorious for there built quality. A 306 GTi 6 and a Renault Clio 16V. All driven hard and not one let me down, all were reliable but cars go wrong. It’s a fact of life.

[anonymous-user]

blueg33 said:

a. Weak marketing
b. Wrong badge
c. Marmite looks

a. Feeble excuse
b. Feeble excuse
c. Feeble excuse

I'm with Lexington59 - if they could have done a cheaper entry model to get punters into the showroom they might have been in with a chance of selling more cars. It's all about that vital product/price combination.

[blueg33]

rockin said:

blueg33 said:

a. Weak marketing
b. Wrong badge
c. Marmite looks

a. Feeble excuse
b. Feeble excuse
c. Feeble excuse

I'm with Lexington - if they could have done a cheaper entry model to get punters into the showroom they might have been in with a chance of selling more cars. It's all about that product/price combination.

You are struggling with the nuances between reasons and excuses

Kia stinger, excellent car highly praised in reviews priced well below its competition, poor badge - poor sales

Porsche Cayenne (VW Toureg in a dress) - High prices for average car, but flashy marketing and right badge - enough sales to saves Porsche's proper cars