Alpine A110 to be axed?
Discussion
Venisonpie said:
DonkeyApple said:
CanAm said:
Alonso has just got himself a new A110S; they must be good! 
Times must be hard if he can’t pull the trigger on a Porsche!! "The two-time world champion, who will return to the fray with the rebranded Renault-based outfit next season, was given the keys to an Alpine A110S by marketing director Bruce Pillard."
lukeharding said:
Yes, I've heard its been a bumper year for sales for every other manufacturer though 
Their sales last year were pants, too. The relative market share is broadly similar this year to last (0.1%).Of course Covid has effected all manufacturers. For reference Alpine's sales in 2020 are down 42% year on year. As a reference, Porsche are down 13%.
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
Their sales last year were pants, too. The relative market share is broadly similar this year to last (0.1%).
Of course Covid has effected all manufacturers. For reference Alpine's sales in 2020 are down 42% year on year. As a reference, Porsche are down 13%.
Their market share is surely to be expected for a brand that has had no real exposure in the UK in the past couple of decades. They're not going to be selling the same level of cars as Porsche. So if a low volume car sells in low volumes, it isn't really pants. Of course Covid has effected all manufacturers. For reference Alpine's sales in 2020 are down 42% year on year. As a reference, Porsche are down 13%.
When you're talking in hundreds of sales rather than thousands or tens of thousands of sales, of course a percentage will be more harsh on the lower figure.
lukeharding said:
Their market share is surely to be expected for a brand that has had no real exposure in the UK in the past couple of decades. They're not going to be selling the same level of cars as Porsche. So if a low volume car sells in low volumes, it isn't really pants.
When you're talking in hundreds of sales rather than thousands or tens of thousands of sales, of course a percentage will be more harsh on the lower figure.
I've no axe to grind either way. It's just an observation. Alpine is supposed to be growing (from zero), so you would expect its performance relative to the established competition to be better. Porsche has had the same market conditions as Alpine, yet it has managed to avoid the same level of drop. When you're talking in hundreds of sales rather than thousands or tens of thousands of sales, of course a percentage will be more harsh on the lower figure.
If they can only shift a couple or three hundred cars a year in the UK, I doubt Alpine would continue with this market for very long.
To be fair, it's similar to Alfa and the 4C. That never pulled up any trees, either.
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
Their sales last year were pants, too. The relative market share is broadly similar this year to last (0.1%).
Of course Covid has effected all manufacturers. For reference Alpine's sales in 2020 are down 42% year on year. As a reference, Porsche are down 13%.
Are you completely sure that you haven’t just compared the data of a two seater sports car against all of Porsche’s line up where hybrid vans have heavily offset the drop in sales of their sports cars? Of course Covid has effected all manufacturers. For reference Alpine's sales in 2020 are down 42% year on year. As a reference, Porsche are down 13%.
Most manufacturers are down around 50% on non hybrid but seeing big growth where they do have a hybrid car on sale.
Although you can imagine a lot of elderly people suddenly wanting a sports car post C19 and gravitating towards the one with all the comfort stuff?
Edited by DonkeyApple on Tuesday 15th September 13:34
DonkeyApple said:
Are you completely sure that you haven’t just compared the data of a two seater sports car against all of Porsche’s line up where hybrid vans have heavily offset the drop in sales of their sports cars?
Most manufacturers are down around 50% on non hybrid but seeing big growth where they do have a hybrid car on sale.
I've just looked at the SMMT data for manufacturers, which will surely do as you say. I haven't the subscription to dig into the model data.Most manufacturers are down around 50% on non hybrid but seeing big growth where they do have a hybrid car on sale.
Either way, selling so few units in a year can't be sustainable if it has to carry an entire sub-brand.
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
Their sales last year were pants, too. The relative market share is broadly similar this year to last (0.1%).
Of course Covid has effected all manufacturers. For reference Alpine's sales in 2020 are down 42% year on year. As a reference, Porsche are down 13%.
You are just quoting UK figures - which weren't and aren't great. Completely different story in Europe as a whole last year, comfortably outselling every other coupe (including the Cayman) except for the TT.Of course Covid has effected all manufacturers. For reference Alpine's sales in 2020 are down 42% year on year. As a reference, Porsche are down 13%.
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
I've just looked at the SMMT data for manufacturers, which will surely do as you say. I haven't the subscription to dig into the model data.
Either way, selling so few units in a year can't be sustainable if it has to carry an entire sub-brand.
Agree re the UK sales numbers. It’s a big market to not be firing into but it’s a new brand, the old brand never had any real traction or history here, it’s not yet seen as being aspirational and you have to ask Renault to sell you one. A lot seems to be being redressed over the next couple of years and they will surely add other revenue streams. Either way, selling so few units in a year can't be sustainable if it has to carry an entire sub-brand.
The luxury brands like Porsche have been flogging hybrids hand over fist in the UK this year while everything else has dropped so I would guess that that is where the bulk of the disparity arises. And then the Alpine numbers are so small that the slightest of anomalous salesnor lacknof are going to swing their number around in either direction.
998420 said:
CanAm said:
Alonso has just got himself a new A110S; they must be good!
- Has just been given, by Alpine's marketing director
He didn't exactly choose one, and anyway, is probably the least marketable F1 driver there is
998420 said:
CanAm said:
Alonso has just got himself a new A110S; they must be good!
- Has just been given, by Alpine's marketing director
He didn't exactly choose one, and anyway, is probably the least marketable F1 driver there is
nickfrog said:
DoubleD said:
You think? He was a massive pull when he drove at Le Mans. He's 1 of the most famous racing drivers on the grid.
I agree, he has massive marketing appeal. DonkeyApple said:
Agree re the UK sales numbers. It’s a big market to not be firing into but it’s a new brand, the old brand never had any real traction or history here, it’s not yet seen as being aspirational and you have to ask Renault to sell you one. A lot seems to be being redressed over the next couple of years and they will surely add other revenue streams.
I'd love the car to have succeeded over here. I'm just not convinced the market for it exists in the UK any more, not with a marginal brand at least. Even Lotus sell sod all Elises, now. Alfa couldn't make the 4C work. TVR died, was reborn and seems to be dead again. Lotus are looking at hypercars and hybrids. I hate to say it, but I reckon a half decent Alpine branded SUV based out of ordinary Renault showrooms would be more likely to succeed over here than the 110.
Certainly when it comes to sports cars, it’s a segment demolished by the fact that you no longer need a sports car as the only means to access speed and further, the revelation, reality that 99% of drivers never cared about agility or handling. That leaves a very small group whose car enthusiasm focuses on those metrics and while you can see there are no shortage of consumers with £200k to spend on a toy the last two economic decades in the UK have meant that there aren’t that many people with £50k to spend on a toy. And all in a world where currently brand and image rules over all else. The end result is that the Alpine is a niche within a car niche that’s in an economic niche. 
DonkeyApple said:
...there are no shortage of consumers with £200k to spend on a toy the last two economic decades in the UK have meant that there aren’t that many people with £50k to spend on a toy.
Indeed. It's quite an odd world when the market and range of sports cars for £100k+ is vast (Ferrari, McLaren, Porsche, Lambo, Aston, Koenigsegg, Pagani, Merc AMG GT, BAC Mono etc), but the market for affordable (sub 50k) sports cars is dying on its arse, with dwindling GT86, TT and A110 sales exemplifying this. It's rather a good example of the vastly enriched baby boomer generation, versus the indebted and pumped-up asset free young uns.As they are hand assembled I don’t think it adds significant cost to produce the RHD variant and Alpine will, hopefully, continue to offer a version to the U.K. market on the back of the European sales.
It is a niche within a niche but I’m glad Renault are showing the support and the F1 rebrand can only help.
I’m still meeting people who say “what is that” which I find bizarre after all the press coverage but perhaps F1 will bring a few more buyers in. From a selfish point of view I’m glad I don’t see many on the road.
It is a niche within a niche but I’m glad Renault are showing the support and the F1 rebrand can only help.
I’m still meeting people who say “what is that” which I find bizarre after all the press coverage but perhaps F1 will bring a few more buyers in. From a selfish point of view I’m glad I don’t see many on the road.
The Alpine branding of F1 looks a foolhardy waste of money to me, a huge spend trying to promote a non-existent brand, and a poor brand at that. Stick a market researcher on your local high street asking people "what does the alpine brand mean to you?" and see what happens. Mind you, before even handing the researcher a clipboard you'll have to work out whether the word is pronounced Alpeen or Alpyne.
As for selling cars, most aspiring sports car manufacturers realise they need to offer a convertible - and the reality today is it needs to be a 20 second electric roof that doesn't involve stopping the car. Not having one cuts the market to shreds before you start marketing anything.
As for selling cars, most aspiring sports car manufacturers realise they need to offer a convertible - and the reality today is it needs to be a 20 second electric roof that doesn't involve stopping the car. Not having one cuts the market to shreds before you start marketing anything.
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