Alpine A110 to be axed?
Discussion
Olivera said:
I'm of the opinion that the decision to style a modern interpretation (some would say pastiche) of the original A110 was simply a mistake.
It's certainly not an ugly car, but I don't think it's particularly (to my eyes) successful either. The original A110 works because of the extremely low bonnet line and bodywork, once you've jacked up the height of the nose, bonnet, doors and bodywork in general of the new version it's just not as visually pretty and svelt.
They had to play off the brand. Whether they stick to that in the future remains open I guess. It's certainly not an ugly car, but I don't think it's particularly (to my eyes) successful either. The original A110 works because of the extremely low bonnet line and bodywork, once you've jacked up the height of the nose, bonnet, doors and bodywork in general of the new version it's just not as visually pretty and svelt.
One of the things that I like about it is that it is unique. If they hadn’t piggybacked off the original they probably would have ended up with something generic.
It would have been a bit odd to rekindle the brand and not have the first car pay homage as it has done.
cerb4.5lee said:
I often wonder whether Renault should have just called it the Renaultsport A110. The Renaultsport badge is extremely well known/well regarded for having some great cars linked to it, like the Clio/Megane RS and Trophy etc. That might have helped the sales of it.
I don’t think the Renault brand could carry a £50k sports car. Psychologically I think that of it were bashed as a Renault you’d feel it was twice the price it should be. Renault have made some great driving cars but it’s a brand heavily confined by their price point. With Alpine they have scope to go beyond current prices as needs arise. DonkeyApple said:
I don’t think the Renault brand could carry a £50k sports car. Psychologically I think that of it were bashed as a Renault you’d feel it was twice the price it should be. Renault have made some great driving cars but it’s a brand heavily confined by their price point. With Alpine they have scope to go beyond current prices as needs arise.
I actually thought the same as you to be fair at first, but Renault have charged completely daft money(£70k) for the Megane RS Trophy-R fairly recently though. So for me they would be far better off dropping the Alpine name(that nobody has ever heard of), and stick with the name that everyone knows and then charge what they like for them. CABC said:
DoubleD said:
Miserablegit said:
Some might say F1 is a waste of money full stop for all those paying the bills...
As Renault are paying for a team anyway it seems to make sense to promote Alpine.
Good luck to them
Yep, its a bit of a no brainer really. As Renault are paying for a team anyway it seems to make sense to promote Alpine.
Good luck to them
Mercedes hope to get a glow over their entire range, including AMG. There's an aura of serious engineering, performance and winning credibility for every A180 out there. But the Megane RS is now left orphaned, despite Renault paying for an F1 team.
What do i know, i'd have left Renault as the team name & colours and put Alpine on the car/overalls. This sort of rebranding takes years and big $. It's why Lotus still has brand value - Geely will refer back to historical achievements and let owners do a little research to get 'excited' (i'm thinking of the eastern markets here, not UK where there is still awareness amongst the relevant market).
Like Peugeot/Citroen, Renault wasted all their Le Mans/F1 & WRC (Peugeot/Citroen) capital when they were winning championships but not using it to build up the sporting brands they were putting on the road.
They’re doing it now, rebranding the F1 team to Alpine could work if they have a decent plan.... and push it hard.
SidewaysSi said:
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
HighwayStar said:
I don’t imagine anyone who bought a Clio 200 or Megan RS because of the F1 team.
I'm which case, why have one at all?RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
SidewaysSi said:
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
HighwayStar said:
I don’t imagine anyone who bought a Clio 200 or Megan RS because of the F1 team.
I'm which case, why have one at all?The Enstone F1 operation is an odd one at the beat of times. It was originally Benetton then Renault bought into it then Cap Gemini bought control and flogged the branding to Lotus, then Cap bailed and Renault bought back in and now they are changing the name to that of a Japanese car stereo manufacturer.
The team has delivered world champions in the form of Schumacher and Alonso.
Generally, one way or another F1 teams are profitable. The money is so dirty and moved around so much that it’s hard to see the wood for the trees but most times a team posts a loss it’s because it is convenient for that part of a group to be making the loss.
Does F1 advertising work? I guess it must but I don’t think I have any direct experience of it doing so. I don’t own a Tissot watch or have ever smoked JPS despite my father being involved with Chapman, giving him money, during that era. I’ve neber bought or worn an item of Benetton clothing. I’ve tried to buy a Lotus but for years they carried Colin’s devout belief in neber selling to tall people, I’ve never bought a Mercedes, felt the urge to buy industrial production from Ineos or go gambling with anybof the dubious FX companies. I’ve never wanted to own a Ferrari.
But at some level it must work. I must have made purchases as a result of subliminal brand positioning on F1. Plus, it gets a company to a table that is generally highly beneficial for business in general.
But if you own this team and it’s washing it’s face and you have a choice of brands to glue on the front door then I can see the point of Alpine over Renault. I can’t imagine that people watch F1 and are inspired to buy their wife a Kajar but I can see how making the Alpine brand more recognised among the public will help to encourage quite a few consumers to consider buying an Alpine because they feel more comfortable that strangers will realise how expensive it is Because being absolutely brutal, if they want to expand the sales numbers in the UK they need to tap into that key sales driver in the same way that Aston help their customers think that they look like James Bond etc.
I think branding the F1 team Alpine makes sense because it will give the car brand recognition which it lacks. That said I am dubious how much F1 really influences brand images. I may be odd (yes I know!) but I can't say that my image of Mercedes has changed because of all their F1 success. Now I know there are fire breathing AMGs but my overall image of Mercedes is not sporting at all - and it would probably be almost the last place I'd naturally look for a real sports car. I've always thought of them as reliable and well engineered, so I don't think F1 has changed that either.
bcr5784 said:
I think branding the F1 team Alpine makes sense because it will give the car brand recognition which it lacks. That said I am dubious how much F1 really influences brand images. I may be odd (yes I know!) but I can't say that my image of Mercedes has changed because of all their F1 success. Now I know there are fire breathing AMGs but my overall image of Mercedes is not sporting at all - and it would probably be almost the last place I'd naturally look for a real sports car. I've always thought of them as reliable and well engineered, so I don't think F1 has changed that either.
The thing is, everyone - as this post demonstrates - comes at it from their own POV. The powers that be have their spreadsheets, facts and figures and so Mercedes, taking the example, see a value in being involved and dominating in the way they are of course doesn’t hurt. For one, they make money which is always a good thing, and the halo effect of engineering prowess may influence buyers more than the buyer realises. In any case, there’s money in F1 and so being present isn’t just about affecting a brand one way or another.As for Alpine, I see their thinking but agree with the posters who have said, there really isn’t a strong enough brand in Alpine / strong enough range - to warrant a massive rebrand like this. Perhaps when they had a few more cars to flog, then rebrand. But good luck to them in any case.
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
SidewaysSi said:
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
HighwayStar said:
I don’t imagine anyone who bought a Clio 200 or Megan RS because of the F1 team.
I'm which case, why have one at all?They are attempting to do it now with F1 team branding. They really need to be performing near the front, as in fighting for podiums to get any kind of benefit for the road cars.
vdn said:
As for Alpine, I see their thinking but agree with the posters who have said, there really isn’t a strong enough brand in Alpine / strong enough range - to warrant a massive rebrand like this. Perhaps when they had a few more cars to flog, then rebrand. But good luck to them in any case.
Unless Renault own another (previously) up-market and well recognised brand, what brand name do they use? At least Alpine has (a lot of) kudos on their home market which is a useful start as, perhaps more than other nations, the French seem to buy home built cars.i don't think the benefit for Mercedes is the uptick in AMG models, rather it's the continued reenforcement that Mercedes is hi-tech, solid engineering.
not directly analogous, but remember soap powder marketing? it used to be just 2 companies, yet they had over 5 brands each. the reason was to make it difficult for any competitive entry to get buyers attention. F1 is all top of the funnel stuff.
Key thing with spending millions on Alpine is that they stick with it. i wonder whether Alpine will lead Renault's EV push?
not directly analogous, but remember soap powder marketing? it used to be just 2 companies, yet they had over 5 brands each. the reason was to make it difficult for any competitive entry to get buyers attention. F1 is all top of the funnel stuff.
Key thing with spending millions on Alpine is that they stick with it. i wonder whether Alpine will lead Renault's EV push?
bcr5784 said:
.... That said I am dubious how much F1 really influences brand images...
In the UK since it went off the main telly channels and off to Sky, yes. But remember, we are taking globally, and perhaps in other countries it still has the viewing figures and press coverage to matter.And Lewis Hamilton is the face of Mercedes. He does a lot of press. Recently both the new S class and EQS launches were faced by him,
Edited by hyphen on Wednesday 16th September 09:39
hyphen said:
In the UK since it went off the main telly channels and off to Sky, yes. But remember, we are taking globally, and perhaps in other countries it still has the viewing figures and press coverage to matter.
And Lewis Hamilton is the face of Mercedes. He does a lot of press. Recently both the new S class and EQS launches were faced by him,
Channel 4 is one of the UKs main TV channels?And Lewis Hamilton is the face of Mercedes. He does a lot of press. Recently both the new S class and EQS launches were faced by him,
Edited by hyphen on Wednesday 16th September 09:39
Manufactures being involved in F1 goes deeper than just selling an F1 inspired road car. It shows that the manufacturer is able to produce cutting edge technology in all their cars. People are also more influenced by things like this than they realise.
Yup. How many brands stuck on F1 cars and drivers today have that much relevance to us in the UK compared to 20 years ago?
There has been a seismic shift in whonis advertising and it’s not just because tobacco has been banned but because 20 years ago it was only European and some South American ex European consumers who watched F1. Today it has been pushed out globally. In the UK we may be watching it less as it is no longer on terrestrial TV in a meaningful way but as a percentage of the viewing market we’ve shrunk dramatically as Asia, Eastern Europe, Middle East and the US have grown rapidly from very small bases.
Does Mercedes in F1 influence what commercial van we buy or what Uber we use? I don’t think so but it’s probably helped them build market share in China.
I noticed that Ineos are now sponsoring F1. I imagine this is to help facilitate the lunricating of industrial seals in the third world. It’s easier to fly your decision making to the bank in Switzerland if you can chuck in some F1 hospitality on the way. Can I even buy products from Petronas?
On this list of 2020 sponsors I really don’t know what many of them sell. I suspect few are aiming to sell to me. Many will be simply using it to raise their profile within their own industry against competitors and to use the hospitality.
My guess is that a car with Alpine on the side and Alonzo behind the wheel will be able to charge those customers much more money than when it had Renault on the side and that crashing French chap behind the wheel. If you’re wanting to piggy back on a lead brand then you want that lead brand to look as premium as possible and for the drivers to be as popular as possible. Alonzo is so popular that ABBA even wrote a song about him.
There has been a seismic shift in whonis advertising and it’s not just because tobacco has been banned but because 20 years ago it was only European and some South American ex European consumers who watched F1. Today it has been pushed out globally. In the UK we may be watching it less as it is no longer on terrestrial TV in a meaningful way but as a percentage of the viewing market we’ve shrunk dramatically as Asia, Eastern Europe, Middle East and the US have grown rapidly from very small bases.
Does Mercedes in F1 influence what commercial van we buy or what Uber we use? I don’t think so but it’s probably helped them build market share in China.
I noticed that Ineos are now sponsoring F1. I imagine this is to help facilitate the lunricating of industrial seals in the third world. It’s easier to fly your decision making to the bank in Switzerland if you can chuck in some F1 hospitality on the way. Can I even buy products from Petronas?
On this list of 2020 sponsors I really don’t know what many of them sell. I suspect few are aiming to sell to me. Many will be simply using it to raise their profile within their own industry against competitors and to use the hospitality.
My guess is that a car with Alpine on the side and Alonzo behind the wheel will be able to charge those customers much more money than when it had Renault on the side and that crashing French chap behind the wheel. If you’re wanting to piggy back on a lead brand then you want that lead brand to look as premium as possible and for the drivers to be as popular as possible. Alonzo is so popular that ABBA even wrote a song about him.
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