Alpine A110 to be axed?
Discussion
Lexington59 said:
I'm not ignoring anything. There is however a much stronger case to increase supply if you're sitting on a stack load of orders. It seems you would just sell the tiny initial allocation and then give up. This is (or was) part of a longer term plan & brand strategy presumably. You said yourself you believe this to be an exercise to build the brand, for that demand is a key focus irrespective of whether you can build the cars today or in six months' time or whatever.
The bottom line is you don't can the product lines that make a healthy profit. As it is, Covid probably puts paid to demand for a while irrespective, but perhaps they can just put the car on hiatus why they re-tweak the UK marketing strategy...
FFS delivery times were around a year or more for a long time!! Get it into your head, they were sitting on a shed load of deposits for a long long time and COULDN'T ramp up production faster than they did. It remains to be seen whether they will can the production line at all - they just one want to close some factories to reduce overheads. Whether they can A110 production will be about whether they still want to establish a premium brand now that Ghosn has been ousted (he was critical in the decision to carry on the project when Caterham pulled out).The bottom line is you don't can the product lines that make a healthy profit. As it is, Covid probably puts paid to demand for a while irrespective, but perhaps they can just put the car on hiatus why they re-tweak the UK marketing strategy...
Edited by bcr5784 on Saturday 23 May 16:16
Lexington59 said:
I said 'as much'. I didn't say it's irrelevant.
What you actually said was “. Re-tweak the price slightly as well and wow- we can only imagine could have been.“I asked you to come up with this magic figure you were thinking of but you’ve declined to do so. It’s a difficult argument saying Alpine should “re-tweak the price” if you haven’t any idea of what that price should be.
ash73 said:
I expect Porsche buying sheep are kicking themselves now; in a few years nobody will care about their tired old Cayman with engine issues but the Alpine will be precious and sought after.
I’m not sure they are. If Alpine vanishes they’ll think it’s great that a competitor went to the wall as it “proves the Porsche is the better car”
They won’t think that a bit of competition might make Porsche make slightly lighter cars going forward..hence Porsche can carry on building cars out of pig iron.
Miserablegit said:
Lexington59 said:
I said 'as much'. I didn't say it's irrelevant.
What you actually said was “. Re-tweak the price slightly as well and wow- we can only imagine could have been.“I asked you to come up with this magic figure you were thinking of but you’ve declined to do so. It’s a difficult argument saying Alpine should “re-tweak the price” if you haven’t any idea of what that price should be.
Lexington59 said:
If you can get the main marketing message across well enough I'm not sure it matters as much.
bcr5784 said:
Lexington59 said:
I'm not ignoring anything. There is however a much stronger case to increase supply if you're sitting on a stack load of orders. It seems you would just sell the tiny initial allocation and then give up. This is (or was) part of a longer term plan & brand strategy presumably. You said yourself you believe this to be an exercise to build the brand, for that demand is a key focus irrespective of whether you can build the cars today or in six months' time or whatever.
The bottom line is you don't can the product lines that make a healthy profit. As it is, Covid probably puts paid to demand for a while irrespective, but perhaps they can just put the car on hiatus why they re-tweak the UK marketing strategy...
FFS delivery times were around a year or more for a long time!! Get it into your head, they were sitting on a shed load of deposits for a long long time and COULDN'T ramp up production faster than they did. It remains to be seen whether they will can the production line at all - they just one want to close some factories to reduce overheads. Whether they can A110 production will be about whether they still want to establish a premium brand now that Ghosn has been ousted (he was critical in the decision to carry on the project when Caterham pulled out).The bottom line is you don't can the product lines that make a healthy profit. As it is, Covid probably puts paid to demand for a while irrespective, but perhaps they can just put the car on hiatus why they re-tweak the UK marketing strategy...
Edited by bcr5784 on Saturday 23 May 16:16
Nope- this is what you said:
Lexington59 said:
Come on BCR, even by your standards that is a very simplistic analysis.
Point on supply concerns the sector vs say a true volume brand like BMW which sold 170k cars during 2019, there is a reason why a base 3 series has a residual closer to 40% or a Vauxhall at lower than 39% vs the late 60s for these, discounting not withstanding.
The whole sports compact sector is a tiny, tiny proportion of the overall market, and the residuals of both cars will reflect that. What is interesting here is that Porsche have sold vastly more cars, and the residuals are still comparatively high. Why is this ? Well for the very good reason, and the other balancing side of that price / supply equation that you know very well. Good marketing feeds strong demand and this is where I feel the Alpine really let itself down. Re-tweak the price slightly as well and wow- we can only imagine could have been.
Point on supply concerns the sector vs say a true volume brand like BMW which sold 170k cars during 2019, there is a reason why a base 3 series has a residual closer to 40% or a Vauxhall at lower than 39% vs the late 60s for these, discounting not withstanding.
The whole sports compact sector is a tiny, tiny proportion of the overall market, and the residuals of both cars will reflect that. What is interesting here is that Porsche have sold vastly more cars, and the residuals are still comparatively high. Why is this ? Well for the very good reason, and the other balancing side of that price / supply equation that you know very well. Good marketing feeds strong demand and this is where I feel the Alpine really let itself down. Re-tweak the price slightly as well and wow- we can only imagine could have been.
Miserablegit said:
Nope- this is what you said:
Yes- at no time have I said it was irrelevant.Lexington59 said:
Come on BCR, even by your standards that is a very simplistic analysis.
Point on supply concerns the sector vs say a true volume brand like BMW which sold 170k cars during 2019, there is a reason why a base 3 series has a residual closer to 40% or a Vauxhall at lower than 39% vs the late 60s for these, discounting not withstanding.
The whole sports compact sector is a tiny, tiny proportion of the overall market, and the residuals of both cars will reflect that. What is interesting here is that Porsche have sold vastly more cars, and the residuals are still comparatively high. Why is this ? Well for the very good reason, and the other balancing side of that price / supply equation that you know very well. Good marketing feeds strong demand and this is where I feel the Alpine really let itself down. Re-tweak the price slightly as well and wow- we can only imagine could have been.
Point on supply concerns the sector vs say a true volume brand like BMW which sold 170k cars during 2019, there is a reason why a base 3 series has a residual closer to 40% or a Vauxhall at lower than 39% vs the late 60s for these, discounting not withstanding.
The whole sports compact sector is a tiny, tiny proportion of the overall market, and the residuals of both cars will reflect that. What is interesting here is that Porsche have sold vastly more cars, and the residuals are still comparatively high. Why is this ? Well for the very good reason, and the other balancing side of that price / supply equation that you know very well. Good marketing feeds strong demand and this is where I feel the Alpine really let itself down. Re-tweak the price slightly as well and wow- we can only imagine could have been.
ks must stand a chance of more intelligent interaction.There was a PH feature not so long ago when a staff writer (apologies, can’t recall his name) visited the Alpine factory to see his own car being built. It was very interesting to see the care and attention to detail that goes into a car like this and I came away with the opinion that the price of £50,000 was actually something of a bargain. In any case £30,000 would just be pure fantasy.
It’s a truly desirable car in my estimation, and it will be a crying shame if production is canned. This goes for all of us, including those that don’t even like it.
Think about it; other manufacturers will take note, no doubt about that. If a company with the financial clout of Renault produce a compact, light weight sports car that’s great to drive and receives countless plaudits & 5 star reviews; well known journalists & collectors buy them with their own money, and they STILL can’t make a go of it... then what chance does anyone else have? See also the Fiat / Abarth 124 Spider at a lower price point.
I’m a sucker for a bit of heritage and the A110 just hit the spot for me as soon as I first saw a picture of it, but we should all be thankful it exists at all and especially in rhd form.
Also, while I’m no fan of SUVs I was (am still?) really looking forward to see what Alpine would come up with given how they nailed it first time with the A110. Hopefully not just another ‘me too’ lump like all the others, but a genuinely fresh face in the market with something different to offer.
Anyway I really hope these rumours don’t come to fruition, and that Alpine continues and flourishes well into the future.
It’s a truly desirable car in my estimation, and it will be a crying shame if production is canned. This goes for all of us, including those that don’t even like it.
Think about it; other manufacturers will take note, no doubt about that. If a company with the financial clout of Renault produce a compact, light weight sports car that’s great to drive and receives countless plaudits & 5 star reviews; well known journalists & collectors buy them with their own money, and they STILL can’t make a go of it... then what chance does anyone else have? See also the Fiat / Abarth 124 Spider at a lower price point.
I’m a sucker for a bit of heritage and the A110 just hit the spot for me as soon as I first saw a picture of it, but we should all be thankful it exists at all and especially in rhd form.
Also, while I’m no fan of SUVs I was (am still?) really looking forward to see what Alpine would come up with given how they nailed it first time with the A110. Hopefully not just another ‘me too’ lump like all the others, but a genuinely fresh face in the market with something different to offer.
Anyway I really hope these rumours don’t come to fruition, and that Alpine continues and flourishes well into the future.
This thread 
The Alpine is a nice little car for us car enthusiasts, but we are a tiny minority of the car buying population. Some people seem to puzzled by the suggestion that ‘image’ plays a part in the buying process, even for car enthusiasts. I’d suggest those people remove their heads from their arses.
Things like a Porsche Cayman appeals to both enthusiasts and the wider car buying populations alike. It’s desirable to the many, whereas the Alpine is desirable to the few.
Alpine canning production so soon is all the proof you need that the formula hasn’t worked commercially.
The Alpine is a nice little car for us car enthusiasts, but we are a tiny minority of the car buying population. Some people seem to puzzled by the suggestion that ‘image’ plays a part in the buying process, even for car enthusiasts. I’d suggest those people remove their heads from their arses.
Things like a Porsche Cayman appeals to both enthusiasts and the wider car buying populations alike. It’s desirable to the many, whereas the Alpine is desirable to the few.
Alpine canning production so soon is all the proof you need that the formula hasn’t worked commercially.
Edited by nuttywobbler on Saturday 23 May 17:11
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