Alpine A110 to be axed?
Discussion
blueg33 said:
DonkeyApple said:
cerb4.5lee said:
One of my old bosses had an Alpine A610 and I thought that it was seriously cool(I've always been into cars and I loved it when it came out and still do, so I knew what it was), but the rest of my colleagues didn't know what it was or had ever heard of it. I do also appreciate rare cars as well, so I really like the A110 for that too.
I nearly bought one of those. Two things put me off in the end. The first was that it appeared on a TV show in the hands of a tarmac drive specialist and the second was that when I sat in one at the showroom it was like being in front of the s
ttest, generic discount 80s stereo unit in Dixons. It was made of the hideous plastic that was in my mother’s R5 GTS. That was no problem in an over engined, cheap French hatchback but the Alpine was not cheap French hatchback prices. You were being asked to pay big money for something with the interior of a poundshop, the engine out of an executive minicab and an image associated with a greased up tarmac vendor. Venturi’s engine was a little bit different. But you know that. As was the Alfa unit in the mid 90s.
The reality is that being asked to pay top whack for a budget 90 degree V6 is always an issue. Everyone has found that when they’ve lifted them out of executive minicabs and mid level executive salesman’s cars and tried to sell high price sports cars.
Merc and Jag have spent the last decade trying to bin their 90 degree accounts V8 and get back to a straight 6.
It’s a perfectly good engine design but it exists only ever because of budget, never because it was the correct engineering choice or the preferred consumer choice. And that is exactly why it always presents a bit of an issue when one is put into a car that is expected to sell at prices well above the executive minicab and salesman market where they work perfectly.
Lexington59 said:
Not if managed correctly.
So you accept that the problem fundamentally wasn't the price or the marketing - but the management of production? I suggest you watch this video and you might realise that the car is, because of its construction, very labour intensive to build. The fact that the bodies come from Italy and need to be electrophoretically treated at another Renault site doesn't help. If you were expecting to build it in large numbers you simply wouldn't do it that way - and you wouldn't do it at Dieppe because the plant isn't big enough.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iS6n-JjU1o
Miserablegit said:
“Yes, but if they sold them at £30,000 there would be one on every driveway...“
Except there wouldn’t as it probably costs 40k to build...
Reminds me of a famous story Except there wouldn’t as it probably costs 40k to build...
At the time David Brown was selling Aston’s at £5000. One of his friends asked to buy one at cost.
“Yes said DB, that’ll be £6000”
Aston nearly went under.
nuttywobbler said:
Alpine canning production so soon is all the proof you need that the formula hasn’t worked commercially.
But they haven't, have they? This is all just a rumour that they may shut a few factories, which hasn't been confirmed or denied as yet (that I have seen). It seems odd that so many people seem to be frothing at the mouth in the hope that they do though. Even if you don't like the car, why would you want less choice in the marketplace and hope that another manufacturer very publicly decides that it isn't worth building sports cars? (this last part especially is in general rather than aimed at anyone in particular). ash73 said:
It doesn't work like that anyhow, products must be priced correctly; if you price it too low it'll actually put people off buying it, believe it or not.
While that probably is true in general (but in this case given the critical acclaim I doubt it) - are you saying that the Alpine should have been priced at £60k or £70k? Given the demand I doubt a modest uplift wouldn't have killed demand - but would it have been sensible to price it above, rather a tad below an equivalent Cayman?nuttywobbler said:
This thread 
The Alpine is a nice little car for us car enthusiasts, but we are a tiny minority of the car buying population. Some people seem to puzzled by the suggestion that ‘image’ plays a part in the buying process, even for car enthusiasts. I’d suggest those people remove their heads from their arses.
Things like a Porsche Cayman appeals to both enthusiasts and the wider car buying populations alike. It’s desirable to the many, whereas the Alpine is desirable to the few.
Alpine canning production so soon is all the proof you need that the formula hasn’t worked commercially.
That’s really it in a nutshell. Without all the generic consumers who want a car for the bigger, more common reasons there just aren’t enough enthusiasts for an actual product to be able to sell it at a price that is viable. The Alpine is a nice little car for us car enthusiasts, but we are a tiny minority of the car buying population. Some people seem to puzzled by the suggestion that ‘image’ plays a part in the buying process, even for car enthusiasts. I’d suggest those people remove their heads from their arses.
Things like a Porsche Cayman appeals to both enthusiasts and the wider car buying populations alike. It’s desirable to the many, whereas the Alpine is desirable to the few.
Alpine canning production so soon is all the proof you need that the formula hasn’t worked commercially.
Edited by nuttywobbler on Saturday 23 May 17:11
ash73 said:
bcr5784 said:
ash73 said:
It doesn't work like that anyhow, products must be priced correctly; if you price it too low it'll actually put people off buying it, believe it or not.
While that probably is true in general (but in this case given the critical acclaim I doubt it) - are you saying that the Alpine should have been priced at £60k or £70k? Given the demand I doubt a modest uplift wouldn't have killed demand - but would it have been sensible to price it above, rather a tad below an equivalent Cayman?
Mind you according to BCR it was a limited run...
I’ve heard it all now...
DonkeyApple said:
It’s the PRV unit. PRV was originally set up to build a V8 but accountants and a fuel crisis led to the classic budget 90 degree V6. The engine design no one ever wants but gets made because it’s cheaper than The V8 it was originally meant to be and much cheaper than building an actual 60 degree V6.
Venturi’s engine was a little bit different. But you know that. As was the Alfa unit in the mid 90s.
The reality is that being asked to pay top whack for a budget 90 degree V6 is always an issue. Everyone has found that when they’ve lifted them out of executive minicabs and mid level executive salesman’s cars and tried to sell high price sports cars.
Merc and Jag have spent the last decade trying to bin their 90 degree accounts V8 and get back to a straight 6.
It’s a perfectly good engine design but it exists only ever because of budget, never because it was the correct engineering choice or the preferred consumer choice. And that is exactly why it always presents a bit of an issue when one is put into a car that is expected to sell at prices well above the executive minicab and salesman market where they work perfectly.
Crikey, I won't ask your opinion on the 4 pot in my 944! Venturi’s engine was a little bit different. But you know that. As was the Alfa unit in the mid 90s.
The reality is that being asked to pay top whack for a budget 90 degree V6 is always an issue. Everyone has found that when they’ve lifted them out of executive minicabs and mid level executive salesman’s cars and tried to sell high price sports cars.
Merc and Jag have spent the last decade trying to bin their 90 degree accounts V8 and get back to a straight 6.
It’s a perfectly good engine design but it exists only ever because of budget, never because it was the correct engineering choice or the preferred consumer choice. And that is exactly why it always presents a bit of an issue when one is put into a car that is expected to sell at prices well above the executive minicab and salesman market where they work perfectly.
Schmed said:
Let me get this straight, you are saying this car, which they’re apparently about to can and wasn’t selling well should have been priced higher?
Mind you according to BCR it was a limited run...
I’ve heard it all now...
When did I ever say it was a limited run? I think you should take some reading lessions.Mind you according to BCR it was a limited run...
I’ve heard it all now...
rufusgti said:
Crikey, I won't ask your opinion on the 4 pot in my 944!
It’s a great engine made genuinely interesting by how it was installed. My gripe is with the engines that start as a V8 and then an accountant forces the engineers to cut it down to a V6 but then want you as the customer to still pay big money as if it’s something special and was always intended. There’s nothing wrong with the engine. The problem is the piss taking on the pricing when it’s not in a mid level saloon but put in a sports car and made out to be the engineers choice.
The PRV V6 was absolutely fine in a Pug 605 that I had for a short while. Budget big engine for a budget big car. But the same unit in a special sports car? Not good enough unless the price tag is low enough which it wasn’t in the 610 as far as I was concerned. It was big money for a really plastic interior and an engine designed by accountants. It just rips the soul out of the car you wait all working week to get to drive to then realise that it’s powered by the same people you’ve spent the last five days with and are desperate to have out of your life for just a couple of days. I simply vale engines designed by engine builders rather than Leslie from accounts. They’re too corporate otherwise.
DonkeyApple said:
That’s really it in a nutshell. Without all the generic consumers who want a car for the bigger, more common reasons there just aren’t enough enthusiasts for an actual product to be able to sell it at a price that is viable.
Well IMHO it's just a plastic pig! Boring 4 cylinder turbo engine with flappy paddles and a tendency for burn-outs - ask Chris Harris.
Will anyone miss it?
Mr Tidy said:
DonkeyApple said:
That’s really it in a nutshell. Without all the generic consumers who want a car for the bigger, more common reasons there just aren’t enough enthusiasts for an actual product to be able to sell it at a price that is viable.
Well IMHO it's just a plastic pig! Boring 4 cylinder turbo engine with flappy paddles and a tendency for burn-outs - ask Chris Harris.
Will anyone miss it?
In those few words you demonstrate that your opinion is worthless and that you are not very bright.
It’s not plastic you retard!
A pre production model caught fire so what? Plenty of production examples of Ferrari, Lamborghini, Porsche etc have caught fire. I assume you dismiss all those out of hand too.
Edited by blueg33 on Sunday 24th May 09:02
DonkeyApple said:
rufusgti said:
Crikey, I won't ask your opinion on the 4 pot in my 944!
It’s a great engine made genuinely interesting by how it was installed. My gripe is with the engines that start as a V8 and then an accountant forces the engineers to cut it down to a V6 but then want you as the customer to still pay big money as if it’s something special and was always intended. There’s nothing wrong with the engine. The problem is the piss taking on the pricing when it’s not in a mid level saloon but put in a sports car and made out to be the engineers choice.
The PRV V6 was absolutely fine in a Pug 605 that I had for a short while. Budget big engine for a budget big car. But the same unit in a special sports car? Not good enough unless the price tag is low enough which it wasn’t in the 610 as far as I was concerned. It was big money for a really plastic interior and an engine designed by accountants. It just rips the soul out of the car you wait all working week to get to drive to then realise that it’s powered by the same people you’ve spent the last five days with and are desperate to have out of your life for just a couple of days. I simply vale engines designed by engine builders rather than Leslie from accounts. They’re too corporate otherwise.
I am less keen on the A610, design is less coherent.
Argleton said:
Reading these comments, you wonder why Alpine bothered in the first place!
Indeed, on the face of it yes but these halfwits were never in the market for an Alpine anyway so their opinion doesn’t matter to Alpine.When Toyota have to team up with BMW for their new coupe it is clear times are tough for sports car manufacturers. Toyota received a lot of abuse on PH for that but it appeared to mainly come from the posters who were not in the market for one anyway.
The clown above calling the A110 a “plastic pig” merely shows how ill informed he is. Call it a pig by all means if you need to but at least research what it is made from...
springfan62 said:
Except Chris Harris loves the A110.
There hasn't been many review where the driver didn't love the car. It was pretty much universally praise. But it's PH. People have to hate. A manufacturer launches a great handling mid engine aluminium chassied car and "enthusiasts" with an empty garage have to slag it off and rejoice in the fact that it might be discontinued. I find that strange.
nickfrog said:
springfan62 said:
Except Chris Harris loves the A110.
There hasn't been many review where the driver didn't love the car. It was pretty much universally praise. But it's PH. People have to hate. A manufacturer launches a great handling mid engine aluminium chassied car and "enthusiasts" with an empty garage have to slag it off and rejoice in the fact that it might be discontinued. I find that strange.
nickfrog said:
There hasn't been many review where the driver didn't love the car. It was pretty much universally praise.
But it's PH. People have to hate. A manufacturer launches a great handling mid engine aluminium chassied car and "enthusiasts" with an empty garage have to slag it off and rejoice in the fact that it might be discontinued. I find that strange.
I think most of the negativity has been from Porsche fans who for years had been told by jounro's "this was the car to have". They towed the line and proudly specced matching stitching with their wifes (or their own) nail varnish and paraded up and down high streets with their spoilers raised and made sure everyone knew.But it's PH. People have to hate. A manufacturer launches a great handling mid engine aluminium chassied car and "enthusiasts" with an empty garage have to slag it off and rejoice in the fact that it might be discontinued. I find that strange.
Suddenly the Alpine outpointed their beloved brand in road tests and the same journo's let them down by telling everyone this was the new best thing - and it is -they even started buying them.
Now it maybe canned they can crow once more.
Venisonpie said:
I think most of the negativity has been from Porsche fans who for years had been told by jounro's "this was the car to have". They towed the line and proudly specced matching stitching with their wifes (or their own) nail varnish and paraded up and down high streets with their spoilers raised and made sure everyone knew.
Suddenly the Alpine outpointed their beloved brand in road tests and the same journo's let them down by telling everyone this was the new best thing - and it is -they even started buying them.
Now it maybe canned they can crow once more.
Except the most vitriolic of them don’t even have a 718 so there is no clear basis for their odd behaviour...they are just odd.Suddenly the Alpine outpointed their beloved brand in road tests and the same journo's let them down by telling everyone this was the new best thing - and it is -they even started buying them.
Now it maybe canned they can crow once more.
Gassing Station | Alpine | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff