Alpine A110 to be axed?

[blueg33]

rockin said:

HTP99 said:

Renault and their ("lack of") reliability especially in the electrics department is another oft trotted out line which justifies to the great ill informed as to their anti French car bias.

It's an uncomfortable fact that there are no French cars whatsoever on sale today in North America, a market that demands reliability. Not many Italians selling there either - apart from the supercars. The bottom line is that "reliability" is best found away from Europe. Germany is the exception - although many of the "German" cars on sale in North America are build right there in North America.

Your statement is wrong

New French cars are for sale in the US today:

Bugatti Chiron
Toyota Yaris
Smart FourTwo

As for reliability, the Germans do not have the upperhand according to What Car reliability survey 2019


Clio is more reliable than Polo
Citroen C4 is more reliable than a diesel Golf or a BMW 1 series
Pug 2008 and Renault Captur more reliable than any German small SUV in that class
Pug 3008 more reliable than Merc, BMW and Audi in thatclss except for the Q3

Reliability by brand for cars up to five years old Overall Peugeot beat Audi, BMW, Merc, Porsche and Citroen beat Porsche and Merc.


Rank Brand Score
1. Lexus 99.3%
2. Toyota 97.7%
3. Suzuki 97.3%
4. Tesla 96.9%
5. Subaru 96.6%
6. Kia 96.3%
7. Hyundai 95.7%
8. Mini 95.4%
9. Skoda 95.2%
10. Honda 94.9%
11. Volvo 94.7%
12. Dacia 94.5%
13. Mitsubishi 94.3%
14. Ford 94.1%
15. Seat 93.8%
16. Volkswagen 93.7%
17. Mazda 93.5%
18. Peugeot 93.4%
19. Fiat 93.3%
20. Audi 92.9%
21. BMW 92.1%
22. Citroen 91.8%
23. Porsche 91.7%
24. Mercedes 90.6%
25. Alfa Romeo 89.7%
26. Jaguar 89.5%
27. Vauxhall 89.4%
28. Nissan 85.7%
29. Jeep 84.4%
30. Renault 84.2%
31. Land Rover 81.3%

[Fastdruid]

blueg33 said:

Reliability by brand for cars up to five years old Overall Peugeot beat Audi, BMW, Merc, Porsche and Citroen beat Porsche and Merc.


Rank Brand Score

30. Renault 84.2%
31. Land Rover 81.3%

Shame the one we're talking about here is second from bottom though....

But wait, I can almost hear the cries "but they're a different brand!". Yes. So are Lexus and look where their "parent" sits.

[anonymous-user]

blueg33 said:

Your statement is wrong

New French cars are for sale in the US today:

Bugatti Chiron
Toyota Yaris
Smart FourTwo

What a clown!

[SidewaysSi]

rockin said:

HTP99 said:

Renault and their ("lack of") reliability especially in the electrics department is another oft trotted out line which justifies to the great ill informed as to their anti French car bias.

It's an uncomfortable fact that there are no French cars whatsoever on sale today in North America, a market that demands reliability. Not many Italians selling there either - apart from the supercars. The bottom line is that "reliability" is best found away from Europe. Germany is the exception - although many of the "German" cars on sale in North America are build right there in North America.

Do you believe the crap you write?

And found which wheels on your car are the driven ones yet?

[nickfrog]

rockin said:

It's an uncomfortable fact that there are no French cars whatsoever on sale today in North America, a market that demands reliability.

This is not 1982. There is not such a thing as a French car. My last Renault was made in Spain, had a Japanese engine, a German diff, Italian brakes, etc etc.

Volume brands are benchmarked to death.

Look into a Company called A2Mac1 for starters. It might give you an insight into the industrial reality of the modern automotive industry.

[Miserablegit]

Porsche have had a number of issues over recent years.
It’s got to such a state that owners now need to supervise the building of the car themselves - Porsche have put marketing spin on that of course but it’s clear they are expecting owners to be on top of it
‘“Oy, Jurgen, don’t you dare put that welded second gear in my gearbox- I want a splined one. Are you sure those turrets are thick enough?”

[anonymous-user]

john41901 said:

If only all the nonsense spewed by keyboard warriors actually translated into sales...

C'est la vie.

[blueg33]

rockin said:

blueg33 said:

Your statement is wrong

New French cars are for sale in the US today:

Bugatti Chiron
Toyota Yaris
Smart FourTwo

What a clown!

In what way? The cars listed are made in France and are for sale new in the US market

The clown is the person that states “no French cars whatsoever are sold in the US”

[unsprung]

blueg33 said:

In what way? The cars listed are made in France and are for sale new in the US market

Come on, Man. Few here will want you to defend that sort of obscure, perfectionist point.

No French brands trade here in the US. They've been absent for decades. Almost no Americans have any experience with, or memory of, French cars.

The Italians have attempted to climb down from a small number of high-end offerings, to build a bit of volume in the US, but success has been elusive and, in several instances, dramatically so.

The French lack the powertrains, the reliability, the extreme weather mien, and, most of all, the capital to develop, distribute, and service vehicles for the particular requirements of US consumers.

This is not about demeaning the French. It's just the way things are. In theory, a number of French cars, if tweaked or re-engineered a bit, here and there, could have been interesting niche propositions aux etats-unis. Citroen Cactus and Renault Avantime come to mind. But the macroeconomics and, crucially, the cultural alignment, simply aren't there.

[blueg33]

unsprung said:

blueg33 said:

In what way? The cars listed are made in France and are for sale new in the US market

Come on, Man. Few here will want you to defend that sort of obscure, perfectionist point.

No French brands trade here in the US. They've been absent for decades. Almost no Americans have any experience with, or memory of, French cars.

The Italians have attempted to climb down from a small number of high-end offerings, to build a bit of volume in the US, but success has been elusive and, in several instances, dramatically so.

The French lack the powertrains, the reliability, the extreme weather mien, and, most of all, the capital to develop, distribute, and service vehicles for the particular requirements of US consumers.

This is not about demeaning the French. It's just the way things are. In theory, a number of French cars, if tweaked or re-engineered a bit, here and there, could have been interesting niche propositions aux etats-unis. Citroen Cactus and Renault Avantime come to mind. But the macroeconomics and, crucially, the cultural alignment, simply aren't there.

I was responding to something quoted as an absolute.

I believe Peugeot are planning to go into the US in the next few years.

[unsprung]

ddom said:

For a county which ‘demands’ reliability you don’t see their highest selling truck in many places outside the US. And as has been said, they live JLR products

Hi there.

Ford F-150 and other top-selling trucks aren't seen in many places outside the US because they have been developed to the particular desires and market conditions of US consumers.

For example:

-- It's not just a truck, but often serves double-duty as the family car.
-- The list of features emphasises convenience and power (over, say, compact size or high fuel economy).
-- Buying it is not the "end" but the beginning: personalisation and a vast aftermarket are part of the culture.

Keeping in mind the preceding, let's compare the geographies, operating costs, and household incomes the world over. Are there going to be lots of places that have the same variables and priorities as those in the US?

The answer to your question is not unlike the matter of city cars. Loads of those round Europe and Japan. Very few in the US.

[DoubleD]

An interesting fact

The back of an F150 was specially designed to give Billy Bob enough space to bang his sister on.

[unsprung]

blueg33 said:

I was responding to something quoted as an absolute.

I hear you on that. On the other hand, when an argument spirals to the point that we're clinging to Bugatti -- less than 100 units produced annually -- we're quite far from the real world.

blueg33 said:

I believe Peugeot are planning to go into the US in the next few years.

They were the last to leave, Peugeot. And that was about 30 years ago.

Various mumblings, over the years, have supposed a return to America with a mass-market premium product, but I suspect that the Koreans (ie: Genesis), the Japanese, and, yes, the domestics (Cadillac and Lincoln) will have eaten their lunch, so to speak.

The consumer shift to mid- and large-size crossovers favours the incumbents here. And the current pandemic will surely give Johnny French a reason to think twice. The pool of unsold inventory, both new and used, is growing.

Just to build a network of franchised dealerships and develop the operations for distribution, warranty, training, and legal would be a considerable undertaking. London to Moscow (by air) is 1500 miles. New York to Los Angeles is 2500 miles.

[craigjm]

Rumours of Alpine’s death may have been exaggerated

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/alpine...

Who knows

[Kolbenkopp]

craigjm said:

Rumours of Alpine’s death may have been exaggerated

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/alpine...

Who knows

Yep, also echoed in French regional news. In a coquille de noix: they'll determine what to do with Dieppe once the ICE A110 has run out. Sadly not much more detail. But on the upside: does not sound at all like they are closing shop soon.

[Prestonese]

craigjm said:

Rumours of Alpine’s death may have been exaggerated

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/alpine...

Who knows

Don't forget this article as well!

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/top-50...

[craigjm]

Prestonese said:

craigjm said:

Rumours of Alpine’s death may have been exaggerated

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/alpine...

Who knows

Don't forget this article as well!

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/top-50...

Everyone knows the press love the car that has no baring on the survival though does it

[Prestonese]

craigjm said:

Prestonese said:

craigjm said:

Rumours of Alpine’s death may have been exaggerated

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/alpine...

Who knows

Don't forget this article as well!

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/top-50...

Everyone knows the press love the car that has no baring on the survival though does it

Another positive press review would be more useful to its survival than an article which makes speculations about what will happen to it. At least in my view. I'd personally prefer they did not go down the electric only route for the sake of saving the brand.

[Wooda80]

Prestonese said:

Another positive press review would be more useful to its survival than an article which makes speculations about what will happen to it. At least in my view. I'd personally prefer they did not go down the electric only route for the sake of saving the brand.

Not intended as a dig at Prestonese as I can appreciate his point of view, but I wonder if there were people back in the 60s writing about how firms like Rolls Royce and Bentley shouldn't go down the route of monocoque construction 'if only for the sake of saving the brand'.

Sure you get period where the new tech is scorned but before too long it becomes inconceivable that the old tech could ever have continued.

[craigjm]

Prestonese said:

craigjm said:

Prestonese said:

craigjm said:

Rumours of Alpine’s death may have been exaggerated

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/alpine...

Who knows

Don't forget this article as well!

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/top-50...

Everyone knows the press love the car that has no baring on the survival though does it

Another positive press review would be more useful to its survival than an article which makes speculations about what will happen to it. At least in my view. I'd personally prefer they did not go down the electric only route for the sake of saving the brand.

Totally agree. They need to get a couple of the legende gt special edition out to press