Alpine A110 to be axed?
Discussion
blueg33 said:
rockin said:
Heaven help us. Is this pathetic drivelling still going on?
What’s your problem? Run out of ways to put the car down because it’s not a Porsche? Or is it because almost all of your arguments have been demonstrated to be flawed?
Yep the Cayman guys have lost. We should get this thread closed. We have a winner.
SidewaysSi said:
It's because Porsche fanboys who couldn't afford or live with a proper Porsche suddenly find their favourite car is beaten and they can't handle it. And beaten by a brand they think is beneath them which makes the pain harder to swallow.
It's really quite pathetic.
To be fair, that’s a too simplistic argument. Every brand has its fanatics who can’t, or rather, refuse, to accept balance or logic. It doesn’t matter whether it’s Porscho, Lotus, Ferrari, Alpine. It’s all rather common for people to commit to a brand financially and then decline objectivity as it risks undermining their considerable commitment. It's really quite pathetic.
In the cold light of day, regardless of the type of sports car we personally prefer or what brand we have pinned to our mast if we are brand consumers, the Porsche products are the benchmark at the cheap level of the market. £50k gets you and extremely proficient and well engineered bit of very serious kit.
I can’t imagine myself ever having a Porsche product on the books. It’s not a brand that has ever grabbed me emotionally but they are the benchmark at the affordable end of the market and the honest reality is that most people are stretching themselves heavily at £50k so not likely to risk deviating from that benchmark.
DonkeyApple said:
To be fair, that’s a too simplistic argument. Every brand has its fanatics who can’t, or rather, refuse, to accept balance or logic. It doesn’t matter whether it’s Porscho, Lotus, Ferrari, Alpine. It’s all rather common for people to commit to a brand financially and then decline objectivity as it risks undermining their considerable commitment.
.
Simplistic it may be, but you do have to ask why the same individuals have been cropping up on every Alpine thread, literally for years in some cases. If they don't like the car, fine, but do they have to infect every Alpine thread? I don't like SUVs, but I don't infect every SUV thread in some vain attempt to save the world from SUVs..
bcr5784 said:
DonkeyApple said:
To be fair, that’s a too simplistic argument. Every brand has its fanatics who can’t, or rather, refuse, to accept balance or logic. It doesn’t matter whether it’s Porscho, Lotus, Ferrari, Alpine. It’s all rather common for people to commit to a brand financially and then decline objectivity as it risks undermining their considerable commitment.
.
Simplistic it may be, but you do have to ask why the same individuals have been cropping up on every Alpine thread, literally for years in some cases. If they don't like the car, fine, but do they have to infect every Alpine thread? I don't like SUVs, but I don't infect every SUV thread in some vain attempt to save the world from SUVs..
bcr5784 said:
Oddly no-one seems to make an issue of the the fact that the z4 is £51k or the Supra £55k. I don't either - they are very well equipped as standard. But I could get all uppity about the fact that they are constructed of that low rent stuff - steel - and have relatively primitive strut suspension. Clearly the badge is more important than the engineering...
I agree with all except the last statement.The plus point of the Toyota over the Alpine (Renault) is not really the badge, they are both mass-market brands, but the fact that it has a mechanically balanced engine layout, an I6 rather than an I4. I think most people would consider that balance an engineering advantage.
I agree that the light weight, more favourable weight distribution and double wishbones are all engineering advantages of the A110 over the Supra.
(Incidentally I do think there's a good argument that the A110 makes the four-pot Supra 2.0 almost pointless).
Sadly there is no perfect sports car, because the lightest / most compact engine is an I4 but it's typically not as smooth/sweet as something with more cylinders. So one has to make engineering tradeoffs, as can be seen in the range of choices in the £50k market.
The only problem PH seems to have is people who can't accept that it's a tradeoff, and thus the 'best sports car' inevitably depends on each buyers' personal preferences and priorities.
samoht said:
The only problem PH seems to have is people who can't accept that it's a tradeoff, and thus the 'best sports car' inevitably depends on each buyers' personal preferences and priorities.
Yes because in reality there is no such thing as “the best sports car” or best any other car because it all depends on what the buyer values. Sure some cars are generally better all round that others which is how you justify the price but you cannot put one car on a pedastal and say.... this is the best craigjm said:
samoht said:
The only problem PH seems to have is people who can't accept that it's a tradeoff, and thus the 'best sports car' inevitably depends on each buyers' personal preferences and priorities.
Yes because in reality there is no such thing as “the best sports car” or best any other car because it all depends on what the buyer values. Sure some cars are generally better all round that others which is how you justify the price but you cannot put one car on a pedastal and say.... this is the best However a few owners of certain German sportcars seen to think their manhood is challenged if their car isn't the absolute best, fullstop, no alternative
blueg33 said:
Absolutely
However a few owners of certain German sportcars seen to think their manhood is challenged if their car isn't the absolute best, fullstop, no alternative
This may or may not be true, but comments like this just end up with more comments about the Alpine and round and round we go.However a few owners of certain German sportcars seen to think their manhood is challenged if their car isn't the absolute best, fullstop, no alternative
DoubleD said:
blueg33 said:
Absolutely
However a few owners of certain German sportcars seen to think their manhood is challenged if their car isn't the absolute best, fullstop, no alternative
This may or may not be true, but comments like this just end up with more comments about the Alpine and round and round we go.However a few owners of certain German sportcars seen to think their manhood is challenged if their car isn't the absolute best, fullstop, no alternative
The A110 isn't be axed after all, so I guess this thread can be closed now to stop further engagement! Recent Alpine threads have reminded me of the 100 years war......
For balance I will just add that if I came into a windfall, both Alpine and a 718 Cayman would happily find a place in my garage.
For balance I will just add that if I came into a windfall, both Alpine and a 718 Cayman would happily find a place in my garage.
Renaults design boss who is also responsible for Alpine was interviewed this week and said
Laurens van den Acker said:
The A110 was incredibly well received, but now Alpine has gone quiet. What’s next?
“Alpine is front and centre in our deliberations. We’ve re-established the brand with the A110. We did a pretty good job at making a car that bridges the past with the future. While we were considering our next steps over the last two years, we have had an overnight transformation of the industry because of CO2, Dieselgate and the coronavirus. We believe there is a place for Alpine. There will always be people who love a fantastic drive.”
Will Alpine go electric?
In the long run, it’s inevitable that we’ll electrify Alpine – and it’s not negative. We’re not only doing it because of the regulations. People’s expectations will shift and will push us into this direction. The challenge will be making something electric which is lightweight. Straight-line speed is no issue but that isn’t the attraction of Alpine. It’s about throwing a car around. It’s like a Mazda MX-5 or Lotus Elise in spirit.”
“Alpine is front and centre in our deliberations. We’ve re-established the brand with the A110. We did a pretty good job at making a car that bridges the past with the future. While we were considering our next steps over the last two years, we have had an overnight transformation of the industry because of CO2, Dieselgate and the coronavirus. We believe there is a place for Alpine. There will always be people who love a fantastic drive.”
Will Alpine go electric?
In the long run, it’s inevitable that we’ll electrify Alpine – and it’s not negative. We’re not only doing it because of the regulations. People’s expectations will shift and will push us into this direction. The challenge will be making something electric which is lightweight. Straight-line speed is no issue but that isn’t the attraction of Alpine. It’s about throwing a car around. It’s like a Mazda MX-5 or Lotus Elise in spirit.”
bcr5784 said:
The only issue I have with that graph is that the Audi TT is on it. I know they call it a sportscar but it's nothing of the sort and not even on nodding terms with the rest on the list.I think that's probably why it sells so much, its 'sportscar lite'.
Apologies if this continues the thread.....
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