Alpine A110 to be axed?
Discussion
untakenname said:
Fittster said:
Why wouldn't you? I can show you evidence they are reliable:
https://europe.jdpower.com/press-releases/2019-uk-...
I have had first hand evidence that they aren't reliable, had a low milege 206 in the household where both the lights and indicators worked but not both at the same time which was obviously an issue at night, was caused by the steering wheel squib connections wearing out.https://europe.jdpower.com/press-releases/2019-uk-...
Looked it up online for a fix (simple relay to run the lights direct) and was astounded that there was a multiple page thread dedicated to the same issue that had dozens of owners in the same boat, why VOSA didn't issue an urgent recall is bewildering.
Another small sample for you.
My brother has run only French Cars (he is odd) for the last 30 years. He tends to run each one to about 200k miles, he has never had reliability issues aside from wear and tear. (amongst other things he is an engineer so things that break annoy him)
Joey Deacon said:
Fittster said:
Manufactures seem to have to learn the hard way, that if you don't have the right badge you won't sell an up market product.
GM (chevrolet), Renault, Toyota, Honda have wasted a lot of development on cars people in the UK won't buy
Totally agree, if people are going to spend £50K plus on a sports car it better have a Porsche badge on the front so everyone knows they have a sports car. It's a bit like watches, the majority of people know nothing about watches but they will definitely be impressed if you have a Rolex.GM (chevrolet), Renault, Toyota, Honda have wasted a lot of development on cars people in the UK won't buy
Edited by Fittster on Wednesday 20th May 13:50
Mainstream sports cars sell in tiny numbers, look at how many GT86s have been sold. How many of the new Toyota Supra will be sold, a handful I bet.
The majority of people these days want an SUV so they can sit up high and feel safe.
Forget badges, forget chrome and glass dealerships, forget the other excuses. Focus on Product and Price.
It's no accident Mazda is one of the world's most successful sportscar manufacturers.
IMO selling a "sports car" which doesn't offer a convertible and doesn't offer a manual is never going to be easy - whether or not buyers actually specify those things.
Leaving that aside it will be a great shame if A110 dies young. In a world of lookalike SUVs and hatchbacks A110 has been interesting and different. At least it exists!
It's no accident Mazda is one of the world's most successful sportscar manufacturers.
IMO selling a "sports car" which doesn't offer a convertible and doesn't offer a manual is never going to be easy - whether or not buyers actually specify those things.
Leaving that aside it will be a great shame if A110 dies young. In a world of lookalike SUVs and hatchbacks A110 has been interesting and different. At least it exists!
rockin said:
IMO selling a "sports car" which doesn't offer a convertible and doesn't offer a manual is never going to be easy - whether or not buyers actually specify those things.
I suspect this is true, which is a shame in a way because I think the primary reason the Alpine is so much lighter than the Cayman and so much more user-friendly than the Elise/Exige is that the whole platform was designed on the premise that there would never be a convertible version and hence it didn't need huge heavy bracing or massive sills for rigidity. maz8062 said:
One o=would have to be in the know to even consider one of these, and therein lies the problem.
The A110 is, or was, supposed to be the first of a range. Personally, I was sceptical of what that range would be, perhaps more likely high performance versions of standard cars rather than stand alone models, but that awareness and brand building has to start somewhere.Miserablegit said:
The best dealership seemed to be the Renault group owned one in Manchester
I went to this dealer when they first came out as I wanted to have a look around one in the flesh. I was by no means a 'serious' buyer and I let them know that straight away. I was still offered drinks, given a detailed walk through of the car and treated as if I'd just bought two. From my experience I have no doubt Renault/Alpine really took this car seriously and trained their staff accordingly. It's a shame if franchised dealers didn't do the same as they've had a real clean slate to create a premium 'French' experience.
kambites said:
rockin said:
IMO selling a "sports car" which doesn't offer a convertible and doesn't offer a manual is never going to be easy - whether or not buyers actually specify those things.
I suspect this is true, which is a shame in a way because I think the primary reason the Alpine is so much lighter than the Cayman and so much more user-friendly than the Elise/Exige is that the whole platform was designed on the premise that there would never be a convertible version and hence it didn't need huge heavy bracing or massive sills for rigidity. let's also remember that most mx5s are bought for simple open air fun that's a little sporty, often by ladies... all credit to Mazda for continued focus on the fundamental chassis. it's only once they're secondhand that the hardcore drivers get hold of them to add bracing, coilovers etc
that the A110 was such a good car from the off is incredible. that it may die maybe is the canary in the coal mine.
Let's hope the GR86 continues.
MC Bodge said:
SpeckledJim said:
It’s an extremely expensive watch. It beats a Rolex in an expensive watch competition.
Most Rolex owners won’t know that, because they bought their Rolex because it’s the most famous expensive watch. Not the most expensive, just the most famous.
No expensive watches are as good as your timex at telling the time.
All expensive watch owners ignore that bit.
Cheers, I'm not into jewellery. I'll keep the Timex. Most Rolex owners won’t know that, because they bought their Rolex because it’s the most famous expensive watch. Not the most expensive, just the most famous.
No expensive watches are as good as your timex at telling the time.
All expensive watch owners ignore that bit.
Rolex is Mercedes AMG / BMW M
Timex is Suzuki Celerio
If your timex is quartz it will definitely tell the time more accurately than the more expensive watches.
'Canary in the coalmine' makes me smile since Covid is not the real reason why the Alpine failed at all, it just perhaps exacerbated it's demise is all.
The problem with the Alpine is they didn't get the basics right. You could perhaps argue they did in terms of dynamism, weight, handling, etc, but that these things are not the main attributes that sell cars, even in this sector, makes it even more surprising they actually went ahead with it at all. The price point was all wrong from the outset and far too high, especially when offering a new entrant in a market of established brands offering far more variants.
I think, the Renault Alpine was always destined to end up as a curio, one of those unusual experiments we are unlikely to see again any time soon, a shame perhaps but also now a clear study in auto economics.
The problem with the Alpine is they didn't get the basics right. You could perhaps argue they did in terms of dynamism, weight, handling, etc, but that these things are not the main attributes that sell cars, even in this sector, makes it even more surprising they actually went ahead with it at all. The price point was all wrong from the outset and far too high, especially when offering a new entrant in a market of established brands offering far more variants.
I think, the Renault Alpine was always destined to end up as a curio, one of those unusual experiments we are unlikely to see again any time soon, a shame perhaps but also now a clear study in auto economics.
Lexington59 said:
'Canary in the coalmine' makes me smile since Covid is not the real reason why the Alpine failed at all, it just perhaps exacerbated it's demise is all.
I think you're agreeing... basically what you're both saying is that there's no market for cars which put driving involvement over tech and image anymore. Hence why the best selling "sports car" in Europe by far is the Audi TT. Ultimately things are worth what people will pay for them, and in today's market a FWD hatchback in a frock with a cuddly dashboard and a premium badge is worth more than a bespoke sports car without those things. That's always going to make it very hard for anyone to produce drivers' cars; I suspect every A110 costs Renault at least twice as much to produce as every TT costs VAG, yet people expect them to sell it for less money.
Edited by kambites on Thursday 21st May 12:04
CABC said:
kambites said:
rockin said:
IMO selling a "sports car" which doesn't offer a convertible and doesn't offer a manual is never going to be easy - whether or not buyers actually specify those things.
I suspect this is true, which is a shame in a way because I think the primary reason the Alpine is so much lighter than the Cayman and so much more user-friendly than the Elise/Exige is that the whole platform was designed on the premise that there would never be a convertible version and hence it didn't need huge heavy bracing or massive sills for rigidity. let's also remember that most mx5s are bought for simple open air fun that's a little sporty, often by ladies... all credit to Mazda for continued focus on the fundamental chassis. it's only once they're secondhand that the hardcore drivers get hold of them to add bracing, coilovers etc
that the A110 was such a good car from the off is incredible. that it may die maybe is the canary in the coal mine.
Let's hope the GR86 continues.
Who'd have thought we would regard Toyota as one of the guardians of the sports car flame having ignored the segment for so long after the demise of the old Supra and MR2?
Fingers crossed the GT86's replacement is a good'un: https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/next-t...
Can we just correct one thing, the rumour going round is that Dieppe will close, not that the A110 will cease production.
It is possible thats the case but they could close Dieppe and move production elsewhere, after all the Dieppe plant is currently only making Alpines.
Alpine was always more than an investment in one car, it was intended to be the start of a series of premium products, ditching the A110 means ditching the whole project.
It is possible thats the case but they could close Dieppe and move production elsewhere, after all the Dieppe plant is currently only making Alpines.
Alpine was always more than an investment in one car, it was intended to be the start of a series of premium products, ditching the A110 means ditching the whole project.
rockin said:
IMO selling a "sports car" which doesn't offer a convertible and doesn't offer a manual is never going to be easy - whether or not buyers actually specify those things.
Yeah, Ferrari can't sell cars now they don't have a open manual gate.There's always a justification to not buy a car.
If you go through the list of sporting cars from Toyota, Nissan , Honda, GM, Renault, you can find something about them you don't like. In the last decade name two UK sales success where a sporting car doesn't have a prestige badge.
springfan62 said:
Alpine was always more than an investment in one car, it was intended to be the start of a series of premium products, ditching the A110 means ditching the whole project.
Maybe they have looked how well their partner Nissan got on selling premium products under the infiniti brand in EuropeGassing Station | Alpine | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff