Life110 Geometry. Experience, Advice and where to get done
Discussion
Thanks for the write up Tim, your handling comments ring all too true even for road use on the standard Geo. appreciate it wasn’t your prime concern, but love the look of your car with the mods -pics on SELOC.
Must admit I didn’t expect to see you here having not seen you at Newlands since COVID.
Must admit I didn’t expect to see you here having not seen you at Newlands since COVID.
ravon said:
Hi, I’m not much of a Forum writer as I’m a left handed dyslexic, however I’d like to share my Alpine experiences as they maybe useful to other enthusiasts .
My Alpine experience started with a call from my Porsche tuner while I was enjoying a great track day at Thruxton in my trusty Porsche 968CS, the call went something like “Tim I don’t know how to tell you this but one of out technicians has just had an accident in your Cayman GT4”. The upshot of this was that my highly developed GT4 had been destroyed, when I say highly developed , it was I believe the only GT4 in Europe to have ditched its strut rear suspension for a Multi Link System like a GT3. It was a great car and the tuner was mid way through building a 4.2 litre motor for it. Anyway this left a hole in my track day artillery, having read a great deal about the new A110 I took myself down to Winchester and purchased a ‘19 plate just under 2000 mile car for a huge amount off new price. Loved it on the journey home and had arranged a Thruxton track day for a couple of days later. I don’t know about Thruxton and Alpine’s , but I had an insight when the Alpine was launched that their might be a problem because I’d met famous journalist and all round good bloke Andrew Frankel at a Thruxton track day when he was in an early example and I was in my late wife’s lightly modified Lotus Elan M100 ( Nitron suspension and AP front brakes ), and had found the Alpine fairly easy to outrun . So to Thruxton with my new purchase, in a world utterly diabolical, probably the worst track car I’d ever driven, strange diagonal pitching over Thruxton circuits odd surface, I was immediately on the phone to Alpine Winchester to see if they would take the car back from me, no interest at all came the response. I went home a very unhappy man .
I remembered that I’d read some comparisons in the press of a UK “improved” A110, did some research and found David Pook. Talked to David and explained what I’d experienced , he told me doubted that there was a worse circuit than Thruxton in the UK that you could drive an Alpine !
Then started a pleasurable relationship with David, slowly adding more and more of his parts, starting with geometry, springs and anti roll bars ( which I think are S components ? With just these the transformation on track was huge, the car feeling much more stable and controllable. I added David’s aero kit , the small spoiler, the front splitter and the side skirts , the motorway/windy day stability was transformed, and again the car seemed more Porsche-like on track, which for me is good ! I’m old and retired, I’m lucky enough to be able to enjoy a lot of days on track , probably one or two a week through the summer season ( the GT4 had done well over a hundred days before it met its demise ). I’ve been a member of Gold Track for decades and still take instruction from time to time , and always entrust my cars to Calum Lockie from Gold Track to try and suggest improvements, Calum is an extremely winning driver over many years in everything from a nineteen thirties Maserati single seater to a McLaren F1 and winning the British GT Championship in a Marcos , so he’s pretty good ! He instantly adored the Alpine claiming weight over horsepower every time ! around the middle of last year a Gold Track Hethal was coming up and I’d ordered some of David’s wheels with Pilot Cup 2 tyres, heavens the grip !!! I couldn’t believe the transformation , I suggested Calum gave it a try and as he returned beaming “ the grip is unbelievable” and indeed it is ! This has to be the biggest single improvement I’ve ever seen in a modified car ! Despite running David’s brake pads, flexible hoses and fluid, I’ve found the car a bit marginal on brakes, particularly at Anglesea and also at Silverstone , I’ve never had trouble but the feeling that the brakes had reached their peak performance and were falling off was ever present, also at Goodwood particularly under really big brakes at the end of the Lavant Straight slowing for Woodcote corner the Alpine felt a little unstable with just a hint of an alternate left/right fishtale from the rear, a little uncomfortable feeling for the driver ! All of my findings were reported back to David , and amazingly he was always one step ahead , so the car was fitted with the Life full large rear wing and the larger front AP disk conversion, now Goodwood is a breeze, the stability with the big wing is outstanding and the brakes are now tireless. During this period I also convinced David to allow me to purchase a prototype set of R53 dampers for the car and a step up in spring rates, these dampers were another transformation added to the stiffer springs, it now feels just like a track Porsche, not a problem for me, I’ve enjoyed track Porsche’s for years , but for you boys and girls who love the standard car’s “soft cloud cruising” give these mods a miss ! I’ve done probably twenty five days on track with the car to date, and now absolutely love it. I was at Thruxton a couple of weeks ago and met up with a young chap who currently races and has a standard A110, as I came up behind him on track a watched his car heaving and wallowing around the circuit I was taken back to that first day on track with my car, the journey with David Pook Life 110 has been fantastic, a real engineer, producing engineered parts that simply work, absoluitely no BS . I hope this story is of interest and modestly coherent, I’ve read it through and can’t see any terrible mistakes ( that’s the great thing with dyslexia ! ). all the Best , Tim.
Brilliant write up Tim! If your ever at Oulton on track, would be great to see your car and mods.My Alpine experience started with a call from my Porsche tuner while I was enjoying a great track day at Thruxton in my trusty Porsche 968CS, the call went something like “Tim I don’t know how to tell you this but one of out technicians has just had an accident in your Cayman GT4”. The upshot of this was that my highly developed GT4 had been destroyed, when I say highly developed , it was I believe the only GT4 in Europe to have ditched its strut rear suspension for a Multi Link System like a GT3. It was a great car and the tuner was mid way through building a 4.2 litre motor for it. Anyway this left a hole in my track day artillery, having read a great deal about the new A110 I took myself down to Winchester and purchased a ‘19 plate just under 2000 mile car for a huge amount off new price. Loved it on the journey home and had arranged a Thruxton track day for a couple of days later. I don’t know about Thruxton and Alpine’s , but I had an insight when the Alpine was launched that their might be a problem because I’d met famous journalist and all round good bloke Andrew Frankel at a Thruxton track day when he was in an early example and I was in my late wife’s lightly modified Lotus Elan M100 ( Nitron suspension and AP front brakes ), and had found the Alpine fairly easy to outrun . So to Thruxton with my new purchase, in a world utterly diabolical, probably the worst track car I’d ever driven, strange diagonal pitching over Thruxton circuits odd surface, I was immediately on the phone to Alpine Winchester to see if they would take the car back from me, no interest at all came the response. I went home a very unhappy man .
I remembered that I’d read some comparisons in the press of a UK “improved” A110, did some research and found David Pook. Talked to David and explained what I’d experienced , he told me doubted that there was a worse circuit than Thruxton in the UK that you could drive an Alpine !
Then started a pleasurable relationship with David, slowly adding more and more of his parts, starting with geometry, springs and anti roll bars ( which I think are S components ? With just these the transformation on track was huge, the car feeling much more stable and controllable. I added David’s aero kit , the small spoiler, the front splitter and the side skirts , the motorway/windy day stability was transformed, and again the car seemed more Porsche-like on track, which for me is good ! I’m old and retired, I’m lucky enough to be able to enjoy a lot of days on track , probably one or two a week through the summer season ( the GT4 had done well over a hundred days before it met its demise ). I’ve been a member of Gold Track for decades and still take instruction from time to time , and always entrust my cars to Calum Lockie from Gold Track to try and suggest improvements, Calum is an extremely winning driver over many years in everything from a nineteen thirties Maserati single seater to a McLaren F1 and winning the British GT Championship in a Marcos , so he’s pretty good ! He instantly adored the Alpine claiming weight over horsepower every time ! around the middle of last year a Gold Track Hethal was coming up and I’d ordered some of David’s wheels with Pilot Cup 2 tyres, heavens the grip !!! I couldn’t believe the transformation , I suggested Calum gave it a try and as he returned beaming “ the grip is unbelievable” and indeed it is ! This has to be the biggest single improvement I’ve ever seen in a modified car ! Despite running David’s brake pads, flexible hoses and fluid, I’ve found the car a bit marginal on brakes, particularly at Anglesea and also at Silverstone , I’ve never had trouble but the feeling that the brakes had reached their peak performance and were falling off was ever present, also at Goodwood particularly under really big brakes at the end of the Lavant Straight slowing for Woodcote corner the Alpine felt a little unstable with just a hint of an alternate left/right fishtale from the rear, a little uncomfortable feeling for the driver ! All of my findings were reported back to David , and amazingly he was always one step ahead , so the car was fitted with the Life full large rear wing and the larger front AP disk conversion, now Goodwood is a breeze, the stability with the big wing is outstanding and the brakes are now tireless. During this period I also convinced David to allow me to purchase a prototype set of R53 dampers for the car and a step up in spring rates, these dampers were another transformation added to the stiffer springs, it now feels just like a track Porsche, not a problem for me, I’ve enjoyed track Porsche’s for years , but for you boys and girls who love the standard car’s “soft cloud cruising” give these mods a miss ! I’ve done probably twenty five days on track with the car to date, and now absolutely love it. I was at Thruxton a couple of weeks ago and met up with a young chap who currently races and has a standard A110, as I came up behind him on track a watched his car heaving and wallowing around the circuit I was taken back to that first day on track with my car, the journey with David Pook Life 110 has been fantastic, a real engineer, producing engineered parts that simply work, absoluitely no BS . I hope this story is of interest and modestly coherent, I’ve read it through and can’t see any terrible mistakes ( that’s the great thing with dyslexia ! ). all the Best , Tim.
Noting the reference to the R53 dampers. These were discussed a while back as something in development and with a bit of interest from some who saw them as a potential quality upgrade for road use from the standard dampers. What happened with those? Haven't seen anything for ages and assumed it became a dead end as the Life110 shop has started selling upgraded Bilstein's instead.
Ah, I guess that makes sense. No criticism at all, David Pook is doing some marvellous things to support the model and long may it last!
On the Bilsteins, has anyone had them fitted? I don't track mine or anything and frankly, don't drive around like my pants are on fire most of the time either but I am curious to know what difference you might see on an otherwise standard Pure (on 17's). Occasionally when I have been out with the car club 'making progress' you get a sense things are a bit frantic under there. Would the Bilsteins offer a bit more control and add a tangible sense of ride quality improvement in every day running around? I wouldn't want to loss the lovely fluidity of the standard car.
On the Bilsteins, has anyone had them fitted? I don't track mine or anything and frankly, don't drive around like my pants are on fire most of the time either but I am curious to know what difference you might see on an otherwise standard Pure (on 17's). Occasionally when I have been out with the car club 'making progress' you get a sense things are a bit frantic under there. Would the Bilsteins offer a bit more control and add a tangible sense of ride quality improvement in every day running around? I wouldn't want to loss the lovely fluidity of the standard car.
What does the new geo take away from the car? One thing I really like about it is how fast the initial turn in is. I've had cars with a track focused geo and they had the same characteristics as the Alpine. Wandered around a little at speed, rode the ridges in the road, but was very sharp initially. Does that feeling go away with the new geo?
biggles330d said:
Noting the reference to the R53 dampers. These were discussed a while back as something in development and with a bit of interest from some who saw them as a potential quality upgrade for road use from the standard dampers. What happened with those? Haven't seen anything for ages and assumed it became a dead end as the Life110 shop has started selling upgraded Bilstein's instead.
David is still working on the R53’s, he’s got the Bilstein damper as an ‘entry level’ upgrade available now, he’s testing (I think) the AST’s as we speak at the Ring. The AST’s will sit above Bilstein but below R53’s. I’m running the Bilstein’s with Life110 springs to see if I like a firmer (but softer than S) set up. They are pretty good but I can tell there is still room for improvement in damping quality… I don’t know prices so don’t quote me but c£3k+ for AST’s vs c£5k+ for R53’s so could be a good option ?
Huge shout out to Matt at Spires who fitted mine, great set up and super detailed !!
Edited by Simon Owen on Tuesday 4th July 15:09
Copy of part of my message of thanks to Matt (Spires) and Daivid ((Life110) having had the Fast Road geo applied to my base A110…
“I don’t wish to use hyperbole, but I’d say the car was transformed from great to superb. It just feels more direct and responsive, but also more essentially stable.
I’ll live with this for the foreseeable, but might be tempted to improve further somewhere down the line. In the meanwhile thanks again for turning the car into the car that should really leave the factory!”
That’s from the 12 mile journey back to the hotel. Looking forward to the drive home.
“I don’t wish to use hyperbole, but I’d say the car was transformed from great to superb. It just feels more direct and responsive, but also more essentially stable.
I’ll live with this for the foreseeable, but might be tempted to improve further somewhere down the line. In the meanwhile thanks again for turning the car into the car that should really leave the factory!”
That’s from the 12 mile journey back to the hotel. Looking forward to the drive home.
Another 140 miles on the new geo yesterday for the journey home and I’m delighted with the transformation. I avoid motorways whenever I can (generally, not just in the Alpine) but had plenty of miles on fast dual carriageways, mixed with twisty single carriage A and B roads. 70mph in crosswinds no longer feels edgy as it did before, and overall the car feels more connected and confidence inspiring.
One thing I forgot to mention yesterday is that chatting to Matt he pointed out that the rear toe-in is adjusted on each side via two bolts which both need to be balanced to get the car right (my paraphrasing). The front of these two bolts need a plate of some sort temporarily removed to get at. He believes the cars are adjusted at the factory using only the rear right bolt, leaving the toe correct, but the car asymmetrical.
He also said that my car was in spec per factory, but at the limits of front toe out - so this might mean I’m seeing more difference than some have.
In summary, if you’re running the car in factory setup, and anything I’m talking about makes sense in terms of what’s not so good in the stock setup I’d highly recommend Life110 “Fast Road” on the base A110, and I’d also highly recommend using Matt at Spires to get it done just so.
Applying the geo…
One thing I forgot to mention yesterday is that chatting to Matt he pointed out that the rear toe-in is adjusted on each side via two bolts which both need to be balanced to get the car right (my paraphrasing). The front of these two bolts need a plate of some sort temporarily removed to get at. He believes the cars are adjusted at the factory using only the rear right bolt, leaving the toe correct, but the car asymmetrical.
He also said that my car was in spec per factory, but at the limits of front toe out - so this might mean I’m seeing more difference than some have.
In summary, if you’re running the car in factory setup, and anything I’m talking about makes sense in terms of what’s not so good in the stock setup I’d highly recommend Life110 “Fast Road” on the base A110, and I’d also highly recommend using Matt at Spires to get it done just so.
Applying the geo…
Edited by Whaleblue on Sunday 9th July 10:04
Whaleblue said:
Another 140 miles on the new geo yesterday for the journey home and I’m delighted with the transformation. I avoid motorways whenever I can (generally, not just in the Alpine) but had plenty of miles on fast dual carriageways, mixed with twisty single carriage A and B roads. 70mph in crosswinds no longer feels edgy as it did before, and overall the car feels more connected and confidence inspiring.
One thing I forgot to mention yesterday is that chatting to Matt he pointed out that the rear toe-in is adjusted on each side via two bolts which both need to be balanced to get the car right (my paraphrasing). The front of these two bolts need a plate of some sort temporarily removed to get at. He believes the cars are adjusted at the factory using only the rear right bolt, leaving the toe correct, but the car asymmetrical.
He also said that my car was in spec per factory, but at the limits of front toe out - so this might mean I’m seeing more difference than some have.
In summary, if you’re running the car in factory setup, and anything I’m talking about makes sense in terms of what’s not so good in the stock setup I’d highly recommend Life110 “Fast Road” on the base A110, and I’d also highly recommend using Matt at Spires to get it done just so.
Applying the geo…
Hi,
I'm curious to know what the difference is between the "Fast Road" set up and the "original adjusted Geo" settings which David Pook created a few years back to improve the handling and cross winds etc? I was under the impression that the Fast Road set up also meant lowering the suspension and adding stiffer dampers etc. Perhaps I am mistaken though. I assume there is also a "Track"set up too?
M.
One thing I forgot to mention yesterday is that chatting to Matt he pointed out that the rear toe-in is adjusted on each side via two bolts which both need to be balanced to get the car right (my paraphrasing). The front of these two bolts need a plate of some sort temporarily removed to get at. He believes the cars are adjusted at the factory using only the rear right bolt, leaving the toe correct, but the car asymmetrical.
He also said that my car was in spec per factory, but at the limits of front toe out - so this might mean I’m seeing more difference than some have.
In summary, if you’re running the car in factory setup, and anything I’m talking about makes sense in terms of what’s not so good in the stock setup I’d highly recommend Life110 “Fast Road” on the base A110, and I’d also highly recommend using Matt at Spires to get it done just so.
Applying the geo…
Hi,
I'm curious to know what the difference is between the "Fast Road" set up and the "original adjusted Geo" settings which David Pook created a few years back to improve the handling and cross winds etc? I was under the impression that the Fast Road set up also meant lowering the suspension and adding stiffer dampers etc. Perhaps I am mistaken though. I assume there is also a "Track"set up too?
M.
Edited by Whaleblue on Sunday 9th July 10:04
Meonstoke said:
Hi,
I'm curious to know what the difference is between the "Fast Road" set up and the "original adjusted Geo" settings which David Pook created a few years back to improve the handling and cross winds etc? I was under the impression that the Fast Road set up also meant lowering the suspension and adding stiffer dampers etc. Perhaps I am mistaken though. I assume there is also a "Track"set up too?
M.
Hi M,I'm curious to know what the difference is between the "Fast Road" set up and the "original adjusted Geo" settings which David Pook created a few years back to improve the handling and cross winds etc? I was under the impression that the Fast Road set up also meant lowering the suspension and adding stiffer dampers etc. Perhaps I am mistaken though. I assume there is also a "Track"set up too?
M.
To be precise I think they call the geo Sports Road on the standard suspension, as mine is.
https://life110.co.uk/collections/alpine-a110-tuni...
Whaleblue said:
Hi M,
To be precise I think they call the geo Sports Road on the standard suspension, as mine is.
https://life110.co.uk/collections/alpine-a110-tuni...
Thanks WB! Didn't read the Life110 site properly, thanks for clarifying.To be precise I think they call the geo Sports Road on the standard suspension, as mine is.
https://life110.co.uk/collections/alpine-a110-tuni...
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