fuel pump fails in current production

[Whaleblue]

Olivera said:

2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:

Even so, millions of Renaults seem to run forever. Is the Alpine pump unique to the car? (Rather than from the Renault parts bin)

Pure speculation, but could the A110 application of the fuel pump be the issue? E.g. the mid engined position causes the pump/tank to run hotter effecting premature failure? This would tally with several revisions of the pump not fixing the issue.

The fuel tank is at the front, beneath the frunk.

[worldwidewebs]

Whaleblue said:

The fuel tank is at the front, beneath the frunk.

I prefer to call it a 'froot'. A 'frunk' is American in my book

[Whaleblue]

worldwidewebs said:

Whaleblue said:

The fuel tank is at the front, beneath the frunk.

I prefer to call it a 'froot'. A 'frunk' is American in my book

The trouble with “froot” is that it’s a homophone for “fruit”, whereas “frunk” doesn’t have that problem, but does conjure up thoughts about elephants, which is kind of cute.

[Colin P]

How about Foot, but then that is an issue for us southerners who speak propper like

[jeremyc]

decoffre, surely.

[LE62NDE]

Typically British to make jokes while discussing a serious issue:


Thread drift? Nah mate, just a cultural quirk ??

[a110au]

Olivera said:

Pure speculation, but could the A110 application of the fuel pump be the issue? E.g. the mid engined position causes the pump/tank to run hotter effecting premature failure? This would tally with several revisions of the pump not fixing the issue.

In Japan there is a circulating theory that the design of the tank plus fuel heating from circulation of fuel through engine bay and the temperature in the frunk in general (the radiator is there) causes tank thermal expansion which in turn causes eventual pump failure from pressure on the body of bottom of the pump. How tank expansion can cause rubbing is not explained.

[xondat]

a110au said:

In Japan there is a circulating theory that the design of the tank plus fuel heating from circulation of fuel through engine bay and the temperature in the frunk in general (the radiator is there) causes tank thermal expansion which in turn causes eventual pump failure from pressure on the body of bottom of the pump. How tank expansion can cause rubbing is not explained.

Wouldn't surprise me if it's heat (and expansion) related considering it starts working after a while in some cases.

[Rob_RCF]

a110au said:

In Japan there is a circulating theory that the design of the tank plus fuel heating from circulation of fuel through engine bay and the temperature in the frunk in general (the radiator is there) causes tank thermal expansion which in turn causes eventual pump failure from pressure on the body of bottom of the pump. How tank expansion can cause rubbing is not explained.

Huh, I didn't really understand this until I saw some pictures of the fuel pump and then did a bit of research into why they look like that. Here's an A110 fuel pump:



The fuel tank is plastic and apparently it's completely normal for plastic tanks to change shape a bit for various reasons including the weight of the fuel itself and pressure changes inside the tank (which should never get particularly high as they are regulated as part of the EVAP system). As you can see the fuel pump has springs and sliding rods which are there to keep it pressed against the bottom of the tank as the shape changes.

Here's how the tank looks, the pump goes into the large hole and you can even see three indents on the bottom of the tank which must be there to keep the bottom of the pump centred.





I don't know if this explains much though. It would seem that pressing against the bottom of the tank is normal and exactly what the pump is designed to do. If the rods are misaligned or seize up for any reason it could cause a lot of stress on the pump housing and lead to cracking/failure.

These pictures btw, are from an A110 that's being broken on ebay. Links here: Fuel pump, fuel tank.

Worth checking out the seller's store as lots of A110 parts, all photographed from different angles.

Edited by Rob_RCF on Saturday 10th June 15:57

Edited by Rob_RCF on Saturday 10th June 15:59

[bcr5784]

Rob_RCF said:

These pictures btw, are from an A110 that's being broken on ebay. Links here: Fuel pump, fuel tank.

Worth checking out the seller's store as lots of A110 parts, all photographed from different angles.

Edited by Rob_RCF on Saturday 10th June 15:57

Edited by Rob_RCF on Saturday 10th June 15:59

Wow! £450 for a possibly dodgy fuel pump seems hopeful.

[Miserablegit]

Any idea how much fuel pumps are? Might carry a spare

[a110au]

as another data point and I have mentioned this before..

when my original 2018 pump failed it was replaced with a pump in stock
then a month later I was told to bring the car back to get the one they put in, taken out again, and replaced with another new one.

Why?
because during the replacement, photos were taken of the NEW pump and sent to Alpine. What they saw in the photos triggered a notice to replace it again.

so my conclusion is they know some or all of what is going on but they do not disclose this to owners. But They also do not know exactly what pumps by production date or part number are more likely to fail and should not be used, (otherwise they would not need pictures). Finally, whatever is going on is at least partly visible on a picture of the pump itself..

[Whaleblue]

a110au said:

as another data point and I have mentioned this before..

when my original 2018 pump failed it was replaced with a pump in stock
then a month later I was told to bring the car back to get the one they put in, taken out again, and replaced with another new one.

Why?
because during the replacement, photos were taken of the NEW pump and sent to Alpine. What they saw in the photos triggered a notice to replace it again.

so my conclusion is they know some or all of what is going on but they do not disclose this to owners. But They also do not know exactly what pumps by production date or part number are more likely to fail and should not be used, (otherwise they would not need pictures). Finally, whatever is going on is at least partly visible on a picture of the pump itself..

If that’s the case the good news is that recently (how recent??) built or fixed cars presumably have fuel pumps that pass the visual inspection test. Even being cynical, that would be the only sensible thing for Alpine to do.

Of course this can only be speculation, but until the full picture becomes available that’s all we have.

Out of interest, how accessible is the fuel pump? What’s the major cost in swapping out suspected defective units, the part or the labour? If the former perhaps it could /should become at the very least a service inspection/replacement item (at just the next service, obviously).

[AJK7816523]

Alpine A110 fuel pump failure. I love my A110! It’s 14 months old and done 9000 miles & I’ve enjoyed every one. Unfortunately en route to the Le Mans 24 hours last Thursday, my car suddenly lost power and stopped on a Smart Motorway north of Sandbach services. A very scary experience- nearly rear ended 3 times before the Traffic Agency got to me. I have Alpine Assist but because a Traffic Agency breakdown truck got to me before Alpine Assists it has cost me £192 to get off the motorway ie travel 5 miles! The car has since been taken to Manchester Alpine Dealer who confirmed it is a fuel pump fault but there are no new pumps to fit so car could be off the road for 2 weeks. Things go downhill further from here. I’ve been told I may get a courtesy car for 72 hours & it’s my responsibility to retrieve the car - I live near Edinburgh! So the car I have come live has let me down in what could have been a very dangerous situation ; I’m already £192 down and now I won’t get my car back for weeks and I have the prospect of paying to repayriate the car despite the fact the whole problem has been caused by my Alpines failure. I’ll keep you posted if Alpine decide do the right thing on all counts!

[bcr5784]

AJK7816523 said:

Alpine A110 fuel pump failure. I love my A110! It’s 14 months old and done 9000 miles & I’ve enjoyed every one. Unfortunately en route to the Le Mans 24 hours last Thursday, my car suddenly lost power and stopped on a Smart Motorway north of Sandbach services. A very scary experience- nearly rear ended 3 times before the Traffic Agency got to me. I have Alpine Assist but because a Traffic Agency breakdown truck got to me before Alpine Assists it has cost me £192 to get off the motorway ie travel 5 miles! The car has since been taken to Manchester Alpine Dealer who confirmed it is a fuel pump fault but there are no new pumps to fit so car could be off the road for 2 weeks. Things go downhill further from here. I’ve been told I may get a courtesy car for 72 hours & it’s my responsibility to retrieve the car - I live near Edinburgh! So the car I have come live has let me down in what could have been a very dangerous situation ; I’m already £192 down and now I won’t get my car back for weeks and I have the prospect of paying to repayriate the car despite the fact the whole problem has been caused by my Alpines failure. I’ll keep you posted if Alpine decide do the right thing on all counts!

When my alternator failed I had a hire car - not a courtesy car - via Alpine assist (a Volvo SUV unfortunately) for weeks until my car was fixed. Have they changed their policy?

[Martyn P]

AJK7816523 said:

I have Alpine Assist but because a Traffic Agency breakdown truck got to me before Alpine Assists it has cost me £192 to get off the motorway ie travel 5 miles!

I had exactly the same happen to me, outside lane of M3, traffic agency took me off the road.

I wrote directly to Alpine with a copy of the recovery invoice, they contacted Martin's Winchester to follow up and the money for recovery was reimbursed shortly after. If you have to have the car collected and delivered to you, I am sure Alpine will reimburse you for this as well - worth asking!

I contacted Alpine first by phone (number on the website) and they were very helpful. They gave me a case number straight away.
For furter communication I used: [e-mail]

Hope you get it sorted.

[Kananga]

I am one of the UK owners who suffered a Fuel Pump failure whilst on an EU road trip with a group of friends.

I’m happy to elaborate if anyone is interested but my pump failed without any warning, on a single lane mountain road. I was not speeding but the sudden loss of power was extremely dangerous and could have resulted in a serious collision or worse.

Alpine UK have been in touch but I am hugely underwhelmed by the response; they’ve indicated that huge amounts of effort have gone into dealing with my situation, but so far the main action is to send a fuel pump to the nearest dealer from France, seems to have been shipped on a standard (non expedited) service. The incident occurred on Thursday afternoon and the dealership is still waiting to receive the part.

I want to love this car but do not feel that Alpine value me as a customer. I think that it is shocking this issue (which seems to have impacted a material number of cars!!) was not subject to a recall. At the very least, they could have ensured parts availability across the dealer network.

To make things worse, the EU Assist service was atrocious, and I’m currently still waiting someone to confirm if they will repatriate me tomorrow, as I still don’t know if they can get the car to my location.

It was my first EU trip of this type, but the entire week is ruined as the car broke down on the first day. Complete waste of time and cost. Very upset and disappointed by the whole experience. Luckily I was able to grab a passenger seat with friends, but it’s really not the same experience.

Alpine UK have implied to me that they’ve moved heaven and earth to help me. From my perspective, that is not the case. If my situation has been “helped” by their actions, I DREAD to think what would have happened to those less “fortunate” than me.

Just hoping to get myself and the car back safely to the UK.

Edited by Kananga on Monday 12th June 18:04

[2 sMoKiN bArReLs]

Kananga said:

I am one of the UK owners who suffered a Fuel Pump failure whilst on an EU road trip with a group of friends.

I’m happy to elaborate if anyone is interested but my pump failed without any warning, on a single lane mountain road. I was not speeding but the sudden loss of power was extremely dangerous and could have resulted in a serious collision or worse.

Alpine UK have been in touch but I am hugely underwhelmed by the response; they’ve indicated that huge amounts of effort have gone into dealing with my situation, but so far the main action is to send a fuel pump to the nearest dealer from France, seems to have been shipped on a standard (non expedited) service. The incident occurred on Thursday afternoon and the dealership is still waiting to receive the part.

I want to love this car but do not feel that Alpine value me as a customer. I think that it is shocking this issue (which seems to have impacted a material number of cars!!) was not subject to a recall. At the very least, they could have ensured parts availability across the dealer network.

To make things worse, the EU Assist service was atrocious, and I’m currently still waiting someone to confirm if they will repatriate me tomorrow, as I still don’t know if they can get the car to my location.

It was my first EU trip of this type, but the entire week is ruined as the car broke down on the first day. Complete waste of time and cost. Very upset and disappointed by the whole experience. Luckily I was able to grab a passenger seat with friends, but it’s really not the same experience.

Alpine UK have implied to me that they’ve moved heaven and earth to help me. From my perspective, that is not the case. If my situation has been “helped” by their actions, I DREAD to think what would have happened to those less “fortunate” than me.

Just hoping to get myself and the car back safely to the UK.

Edited by Kananga on Monday 12th June 18:04

That's all heart breaking. Hope all is sorted soon.

[Olivera]

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-recalls-and-faults/repo...

"Report a serious safety defect
If you find a serious defect that affects the safety of your vehicle, one of its parts, or an accessory, report it to the manufacturer immediately.

Tell the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA) if you’re not happy with how the manufacturer is dealing with your report."

[Kananga]

Am also very worried that this is a design flaw, and so who knows that the second pump doesn’t implode too. Don’t want to risk being put into a dangerous situation, again.

Curiously little official information from Alpine on this issue also.