Karting. Tips needed.
Discussion
Cotty said:
It is accurate in that it works for me and could work for other people. Hense if someone asks for my advise I will give it, what they do with that advice is up to them. If you want to dismiss it out of hand thats fine.
Let me make this as straight forward as possible, these techniques are not working for you and they will not work for other people in terms of making it around the track as fast as possible.slimzimma said:
Cotty said:
Sliding is also a good way to scrub of a bit of speed while keeping the throttle planted.
Why would you be accelerating when trying to scrub off speed!?Alfanatic said:
How can "I tried X and Y happened" be inaccurate advice, unless you're accusing Cotty (and I) of lying? Whether or not you believe it doesn't change the fact that it happened as described.
Read below:Cotty said:
Sliding is also a good way to scrub of a bit of speed while keeping the throttle planted.
Why would anyone be trying to scrub off speed if they were accelerating. This statement makes no sense.Cotty said:
Lots of throttle in the wet and drive though it.
Lots of throttle will spin the tyres up (unless the kart is gutless) leading to a loss of grip and a likely spin. As i explained in the wet a more controlled throttle is the way forward.Cotty said:
The worst place to be in a wet race is the outside of a corner. If the kart wants to drift wide you have no where to go, kerbs, grass, tyre wall game over. If you hit the apex and the kart pushes wide you have the rest of the width of track to drift/slide and recover.
Rubber on the racing line can be very slippy in the wet hence the outside line can at times be a better option, you will at times see F1 drivers do this particularly alonso. The commentators have made comments that he is taking the 'karting line'. Maybe you should let him know he's doing it all wrong.As for leaving yourself nowhere to go any racing driver will use the whole track to go as fast as leaving no room for error, its the risk you take to achieve the best lap time.
Cotty said:
Boot full of throttle will overcome the understeer
As karts are rear wheel driven more acceleration will push the front end on giving more understeer the way to bring it back is to come off the throttle slightly until the front end grips back up.But hey im sure you know best.
It is a fact though, quite often staying off of the dry racing line, can improve grip. The sweeping stadium corner at Rye has a very different line in the wet, compared with that in the dry. Also, Luffield at silverstone in the wet is taken completely differently than when it's dry.
There are multiple factors which contribute to grip in a kart, or any racing machine. As mentioned, the rubber left on the circuit when rained on is VERY slippery, also sap from tree's but also cambers on the circuit in different places arn't sometimes that noticeable UNTIL it's wet.
The only thing that put me off from Cotty's post is claiming what speeds the karts do. He's obviously pretty handy in a kart, but it's a beginners mistake to trust what the kart/circuit owners promote their equipments top speed as (they don't suffer the same scrutiny as road car company's with their facts/figures!).
Other than that, you can take the top 10 finishers at any of this years Club100 finals, or any of the national championship finals and they will all have different techniques in the corners and different approaches again, when it's wet.
The best piece of advice I can give, is to follow other people who are quicker than you. Let them past and try and keep up with them, use them for speed references, braking points and try to replicate their lines if they pull away from you in certain corners.
Edit-
Regarding understeer in the wet when in a kart, I wouldn't advise booting the throttle. Club100's or most 2-strokes don't like heavy throttle application as the carbs are very sensitive. But more importantly, you need to get weight ONTO the tyre that's losing grip. You'll often see tall karters in the wet leaning their upper body weight, towards the outer cornering tyre/wheel to put more weight onto it, thus givng it more grip. It's a fine balance though and if you're a smaller driver, quite often lifting off and in very heavy understeer actually applying less steering, will bring that offending tyre back into the grip window.
But if you're having to think all of that while driving, you'll be slow - like me
There are multiple factors which contribute to grip in a kart, or any racing machine. As mentioned, the rubber left on the circuit when rained on is VERY slippery, also sap from tree's but also cambers on the circuit in different places arn't sometimes that noticeable UNTIL it's wet.
The only thing that put me off from Cotty's post is claiming what speeds the karts do. He's obviously pretty handy in a kart, but it's a beginners mistake to trust what the kart/circuit owners promote their equipments top speed as (they don't suffer the same scrutiny as road car company's with their facts/figures!).
Other than that, you can take the top 10 finishers at any of this years Club100 finals, or any of the national championship finals and they will all have different techniques in the corners and different approaches again, when it's wet.
The best piece of advice I can give, is to follow other people who are quicker than you. Let them past and try and keep up with them, use them for speed references, braking points and try to replicate their lines if they pull away from you in certain corners.
Edit-
Regarding understeer in the wet when in a kart, I wouldn't advise booting the throttle. Club100's or most 2-strokes don't like heavy throttle application as the carbs are very sensitive. But more importantly, you need to get weight ONTO the tyre that's losing grip. You'll often see tall karters in the wet leaning their upper body weight, towards the outer cornering tyre/wheel to put more weight onto it, thus givng it more grip. It's a fine balance though and if you're a smaller driver, quite often lifting off and in very heavy understeer actually applying less steering, will bring that offending tyre back into the grip window.
But if you're having to think all of that while driving, you'll be slow - like me
Edited by SpeedMattersNot on Friday 28th October 15:14
SpeedMattersNot said:
The only thing that put me off from Cotty's post is claiming what speeds the karts do. He's obviously pretty handy in a kart, but it's a beginners mistake to trust what the kart/circuit owners promote their equipments top speed as (they don't suffer the same scrutiny as road car company's with their facts/figures!).
The official line from Club100 is the old 100cc karts would do 80mph. Unofficially they admitted that if they geared them to 80mph they would bog down in tight hairpins and most tracks don’t have a long enough straight to reach that speed i.e. they would never actually do that speed. However as Clay Pigeon does not have a tight hairpin they said they geared the karts differently and on the down hill straight they would be seeing approx 75mph. As to how true that is, I don’t know.
slimzimma said:
But hey im sure you know best.
I've not quoted the rest because you were just repeating yourself.On the quoted point, yes, I do indeed know best what I experienced when I tried applying the throttle smoothly, then tried booting it, on a wet track. You're trying to tell me that what I experienced can't have happened - that I must have imagined it. I wasn't the fastest on track, but if the fastest were smooth with the throttle they must have been doing something else to make that work.
Tell me what that is and I'll welcome good advice. On the other hand, if you're just going to repeatedly say I'm just wrong, particularly in the sarcastic, patronising tone so popular with internet experts everywhere, and which you are adopting, then f
k you too, frankly. philis said:
First lap, do or die move into first corner will always pay off, if in doubt swerve about a bit to warn people you mean business, and the golden rule, when someone tries to outbreak you, just brake a little later than them so they cant overtake.
And then you brake too late, overshoot, and they pass you on the exit 
How are you supposed to know when they are braking if they are behind you? Great tips 
Alfanatic said:
I've not quoted the rest because you were just repeating yourself.
On the quoted point, yes, I do indeed know best what I experienced when I tried applying the throttle smoothly, then tried booting it, on a wet track. You're trying to tell me that what I experienced can't have happened - that I must have imagined it. I wasn't the fastest on track, but if the fastest were smooth with the throttle they must have been doing something else to make that work.
Tell me what that is and I'll welcome good advice. On the other hand, if you're just going to repeatedly say I'm just wrong, particularly in the sarcastic, patronising tone so popular with internet experts everywhere, and which you are adopting, then fk you too, frankly.
All I was trying to point out is that whilst what yourself and cotty tried made you faster than you were it was by no means the best way to get the kart round the track. On the quoted point, yes, I do indeed know best what I experienced when I tried applying the throttle smoothly, then tried booting it, on a wet track. You're trying to tell me that what I experienced can't have happened - that I must have imagined it. I wasn't the fastest on track, but if the fastest were smooth with the throttle they must have been doing something else to make that work.
Tell me what that is and I'll welcome good advice. On the other hand, if you're just going to repeatedly say I'm just wrong, particularly in the sarcastic, patronising tone so popular with internet experts everywhere, and which you are adopting, then f
k you too, frankly. My advise would be to get a good feel for the brake peddle to ensure you don't lock up and get all the braking done in a straight line. Try and get more weight over the front for better turn in and determine what the best line to take is. When in the corner hold the throttle at a constant or only ease onto the power then as you exit only nail the power once in a straight line.
slimzimma said:
When in the corner hold the throttle at a constant or only ease onto the power then as you exit only nail the power once in a straight line.
Probably good advice if you are driving high powered karts but the OP was asking for info for an arrive and drive session. Im assuming pro or thunder karts, basicaly gutless and you want to be on the power as much as possible. You can nail them in corners as they don't have the power to cause problems. At Buckmore Park in a pro kart you brake hard for the first hairpin, a dab for the second and hard for the right hander at the bottom od Symes Sweep. Everywhere else you would have the throttle nailed.
slimzimma said:
All I was trying to point out is that whilst what yourself and cotty tried made you faster than you were it was by no means the best way to get the kart round the track.
My advise would be to get a good feel for the brake peddle to ensure you don't lock up and get all the braking done in a straight line. Try and get more weight over the front for better turn in and determine what the best line to take is. When in the corner hold the throttle at a constant or only ease onto the power then as you exit only nail the power once in a straight line.
Thanks for that, I will definitely try to get more weight over the front next time and see if I can make that work for me.My advise would be to get a good feel for the brake peddle to ensure you don't lock up and get all the braking done in a straight line. Try and get more weight over the front for better turn in and determine what the best line to take is. When in the corner hold the throttle at a constant or only ease onto the power then as you exit only nail the power once in a straight line.
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