Karting - how are others so much quicker than me?!

[37chevy]

I know that from my Tkm karting days that weight makes a difference, but not by that much! When I ran without ballast in practice to putting the extra 20kg on it made a couple of tenth a difference, I was always racing within half a second of the top guys and won a few trophies in my time. I'd say with corporate karting a lot of it is down to the tyres and engines...there's so much variance in the karts compared to race karts because of the way they are maintained. If I were you I'd ignore the lap record and go race in the Daytona series or club 100 where the karts are more equal so you know it's your own driving which is the variable and not the karts

[simes43]

And then there's aerodynamics. The taller you are the less you can hide behind the front panel.

Karting is all about learning new techniques and applying them when and where necessary.

[Centurion07]

hornetrider said:

Frimley111R said:

I weigh 90kg

Ah.

Lol. 90kg and he's wondering how he's 5 seconds a lap slower.

[37chevy]

Centurion07 said:

Lol. 90kg and he's wondering how he's 5 seconds a lap slower.

Won't make 5 seconds a lap difference though.....

[37chevy]

Right done some research....knew I'd seen it before but on your average kart on a 40 second lap each kg equates to 0.09 seconds per lap. Given that you are 90kg and say the average driver size is 65kg then you have an extra 25kg or 2.25 seconds per lap...obviously it will differ for different karts depending on their hp but it's a good guide

[Centurion07]

37chevy said:

Centurion07 said:

Lol. 90kg and he's wondering how he's 5 seconds a lap slower.

Won't make 5 seconds a lap difference though.....

No, but I didn't want to hurt his feelings and say it was his lack of talent AS WELL as his weight.

[Rude-boy]

Totally unscientific but looking at that i would say it is not far of the weight handicap. At our local track over a 54 second lap (fastest time in the same karts) I am about 2 seconds slower at 90-95kgs than the chap who is always on the top of the fastest lap of the month board and they weigh about 60-65 kg wringing wet.

That said I am 'good' (having had a kart since I was 10 it would be disastrous if I wasn't!) but not 'that good'.

[kev b]

I was involved in Karting a while back and despite running a cheating tune in a restricted class and having a light driver, the biggest improvement by orders of magnitude was achieved by using brand new tyres instead of barely used cast offs from another class.

The difference meant consistent wins instead of 3/4th places.

[anonymous-user]

Indoor circuits have dubious periodic maintenance policies, some karts will bre fresh, others on their last legs. Every time I go to my local track at least one kart will die on track and a replacement sought. I'd say the lap record holder at the track in question is an experienced cadet who competes outdoor regularly and has a bit of talent, he will be tiny and got the "good" kart on a quiet day when the track was grippy. There are so many variable with indoor hire karts its not worth worrying about. I raced at Sandown Park once in the hire prokarts and got one which was just laughably faster than the others, it happens but its no judge of skill.

[RB Will]

A few factors can effect the laptimes.
Obviously driver skill is one and weight can make a sizable difference. I raced in the Daytona 24hr in 2013 and 2014. In 2013 the Karts were bare the lighter drivers had a massive advantage fastest lap was 1.03.7/8 . In 2014 they decided to try to even it out a bit so everyone had to be a minimum of 80kg suited, fastest lap that year was 1.04.9.
Im a fat git 95-100kgs and both years I was doing 1.06.5. I was chatting to one of the local pros and he said that at Daytona MK every stone in weight is worth about 0.4 sec a lap which made me happy as corrected for weight puts me right up the sharp end

Indoor circuits are more variable, kart prep varies more. Have been twice this year where just changing karts gained me about 1.5sec on a 27 sec lap!
Then you have track conditions, most are in old hangers or industrial units so temp and humidity make a sizable difference to grip.
Track usage can help as a warmer rubbered in track will be much faster. Having been on busy evenings and enduros you see times dropping as everything warms up. This can give another sec or 2.
Most indoor circuits also have movable barriers, if the marshals are not on top of it then you can nudge barriers around to make the course shorter or corners less severe.

So with the OP example. you could allow +0.5 for skill + 1.5 for Kart + 2 for track + 1 for weight you have your 5 secs to the lap record only 0.5-1.5 of which you have any control over.

[Frimley111R]

Thanks for the abuse guys

I did talk to the track guys who said that the times were mostly done a new track surface with new karts/tyres and by guys who are nearer 50kog so I didn't feel so bad. Where the weight makes the difference is in acceleration out of a corner, it allows lighter drivers to pull alongside and get past. The extra weight/grip seems to make little difference.


Hire karts seem pretty even these days I have to say, even the electric ones.

[Frimley111R]

37chevy said:

If I were you I'd ignore the lap record and go race in the Daytona series or club 100 where the karts are more equal so you know it's your own driving which is the variable and not the karts

I did a 66 lap race at Buckmore and realised I needed to be MUCH fitter and stronger in the arms. Honestly it was a killer and I couldn't wait for it to end. Outdoor karting is much more physical and even though I am pretty fit I lacked the arm strength to do the whole distance. good fun but Rye House and Buckmore are both around 70 miles away

[RB Will]

Frimley111R said:

I did a 66 lap race at Buckmore and realised I needed to be MUCH fitter and stronger in the arms. Honestly it was a killer and I couldn't wait for it to end. Outdoor karting is much more physical and even though I am pretty fit I lacked the arm strength to do the whole distance. good fun but Rye House and Buckmore are both around 70 miles away

I’ve done quite a few enduros and always find the outdoor tracks a lot easier as you get decent straights to recover.
I’ve done the Daytona 24 a few times and even with 2.5 hr stints felt ok to jump back in a few hours later.
I did a 3 hour stint on an indoor track once and was utterly broken. Fingers didn’t work to take my helmet off, bruised blistered and bleeding in other places.

[Frimley111R]

RB Will said:

Frimley111R said:

I did a 66 lap race at Buckmore and realised I needed to be MUCH fitter and stronger in the arms. Honestly it was a killer and I couldn't wait for it to end. Outdoor karting is much more physical and even though I am pretty fit I lacked the arm strength to do the whole distance. good fun but Rye House and Buckmore are both around 70 miles away

I’ve done quite a few enduros and always find the outdoor tracks a lot easier as you get decent straights to recover.
I’ve done the Daytona 24 a few times and even with 2.5 hr stints felt ok to jump back in a few hours later.
I did a 3 hour stint on an indoor track once and was utterly broken. Fingers didn’t work to take my helmet off, bruised blistered and bleeding in other places.

I was talking to a friend who said he'd been asked to join a team to the Daytona 24hr race. He did the test day and pulled out You need a level of fitness, especially for outdoor karting, that many of us just don't have.

[RB Will]

Yeah I have been on teams there where 1 or 2 have dropped out after a couple of stints, leaving what was left of us to cover the extra. They are fun events though, just need more people on the team if you are not race fit as such.

[CraigyMc]

RB Will said:

Yeah I have been on teams there where 1 or 2 have dropped out after a couple of stints, leaving what was left of us to cover the extra. They are fun events though, just need more people on the team if you are not race fit as such.

This is why a team of 6 is better than, say, 4.
People also don't see the value of having people on the pitwall until they do the race without helpers.

[CanoeSniffer]

I love the Daytona 24h! Not been since I started car racing but 2017-2019 did two runs at the Sodis and one DMAX. The DMAXes in 2019 I did 4 stints of 1h40, I have to admit I was sore after that claim to fame is setting the fastest lap of the whole field during practice.. then fluffed it in quali we eventually took a 6th overall which we were chuffed with as its pretty bloody competitive! But yes, indoor Karting somehow is a lot more physical and an endurance race in an indoor kart will make you hurt in places you didn’t even know you had!

As for the weight discussion, I’ve very much got a Karting physique (I’m a short arse) and I used to weigh in at 60kg, in some events I would run ballast up to 90kgs and I’d generally expect to be half a second to a second slower per lap than unweighted, depending on the track and kart.

[RB Will]

CanoeSniffer said:

As for the weight discussion, I’ve very much got a Karting physique (I’m a short arse) and I used to weigh in at 60kg, in some events I would run ballast up to 90kgs and I’d generally expect to be half a second to a second slower per lap than unweighted, depending on the track and kart.

I’m not 100% now but the guys at Daytona MK said in the Dmax it was either every 10kg or every stone extra will cost you about 0.6sec a lap.

Which seemed about right. First year doing the 24 the professional skeletons we’re doing consistent 1.04 laps with I think a fastest of 1.03.9/8. Meanwhile chunky here (about 90-95kg) was doing 1.06.5s.
The next event they made everyone ballast up to I think 85kg and I don’t recall seeing anyone dip below a 1.06.

[AdeRacing]

For many years I raced at Buckmore Park where they say 10kg is 0.3 seconds a lap. In the endurance races the gap between myself and my much lighter team mate was always exactly that in the dry. In the wet they were pretty much identical with me being slightly faster on average.

[fido]

I'll be going to Daytona in Esher on Sunday with a friend. You can test your weight theories on the DMAX practice session.

Edited by fido on Friday 6th May 13:50