Go-Karting

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Discussion

Zarco

18,136 posts

212 months

Friday 6th September 2019
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james_gt3rs said:
kiseca said:
This is the biggest factor in my experience. Even on tracks with lap times under 20 seconds, I can often make or lose a second a lap simply by swapping karts.
Racing driver excuses 101 biggrin
I did a Pro Am charity event at Buckmore 5yrs ago. The pro in our team kept complaining the kart was broken and getting it looked at. I don't think he was much of a pro as he barely beat my laptime, whilst others were running rings round me on track.

fido

16,949 posts

258 months

Friday 6th September 2019
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That's pretty good. I'm only a smidgeon lighter than you and can't get into the 50s either. I'm not as smooth as I could be so will try that - especially before the uphill as mentioned before. I can't blame it on the karts as i have come second many times behind someone who's been racing there since they were 10!

HustleRussell

24,889 posts

163 months

Friday 6th September 2019
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Oversteer in the middle of the corner? Full lock oversteer? Kart sounds severely bent.

R8Steve

4,150 posts

178 months

Friday 6th September 2019
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julian64 said:
They were all young and I an 87Kg so not exactly a lightweight.
Weight can make a huge difference to lap times on karts, especially low powered ones.

Doesn't really explain the oversteer but the lighter ones will have better drive out of corners and be faster in general.

Hol

8,457 posts

203 months

Friday 6th September 2019
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The only times I have ever gotten a podium place at Buckmore is when it’s raining.

Anything else and I lose out in straight line pace and acceleration.


RobM77

35,349 posts

237 months

Friday 6th September 2019
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HustleRussell said:
Oversteer in the middle of the corner? Full lock oversteer? Kart sounds severely bent.
See my explanation on page 1! ;-)

julian64

Original Poster:

14,317 posts

257 months

Monday 9th September 2019
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fido said:
That's pretty good. I'm only a smidgeon lighter than you and can't get into the 50s either. I'm not as smooth as I could be so will try that - especially before the uphill as mentioned before. I can't blame it on the karts as i have come second many times behind someone who's been racing there since they were 10!
Its the first time I'd been there. I looked through the lap times so see if any of the changes I was making per lap made any positive difference. The first five laps were getting the corners right. The next ten were playing about with the seat placement, but to be honest I couldn't remember which lap was which, and the rest were trying to go faster and fast round the double bend at the end of the straight.

On the subsequent race card there is obviously an improvement in the first five laps. There was no discernible changes while moving my seat around. But taking the end of straight double bend faster and faster at the end did have an effect on the first sector time. For most of the middle laps I was just lifting off at the end of the main straight and putting the power back on as soon as I could once in the bend.

At one point I spent a lap behind one of the fast chaps (always a good learning experience) and I was right up behind him at the end of main straight (cos he'd just overtaken me). When I lifted off he didn't. He had his foot hard on the throttle all the way down the main straight and didn't take it off for the double bends. I couldn't do that. Be nice to know why

lufbramatt

5,385 posts

137 months

Monday 9th September 2019
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Agree with lean to the outside of the kart on corners. You can take the first corner flat out doing that. The only place you need to brake at Buckmore is the first hairpin. All the other corners you can lift off and scrub speed with steering lock.

I think the most important corners are the two at the bottom of the hill as they affect your speed on the uphill section past the clubhouse. Nice and wide in to the corner by the car park.

different story in the wet though!

98elise

27,189 posts

164 months

Monday 9th September 2019
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Leon R said:
nobrakes said:
When my kart was changed out at a team event I told the next driver that this one was much faster.

He came back in and said, “No wonder it’s faster, there are effectively no brakes on it!”
People use the brakes on go karts?
You certainly need to at buckmore. There is a long straight before turns 1 and 2 (which can be taken full throttle) then a short straight before 3 which is a tight 180.

If you don't have to brake for turn 3 then you were far too slow in the pevious sections of the track.

julian64

Original Poster:

14,317 posts

257 months

Monday 9th September 2019
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Okay, next time I will look like one of those wobbly headed dogs on a car dashboard and lean out around every bend.

I'm a little sceptical but I'll give it a try. I still think I'm missing something with the seat position though

J4CKO

41,947 posts

203 months

Monday 9th September 2019
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Or, unless you are a pro, dont worry about it, its usually a bit of fun and some are faster than others.

usn90

1,502 posts

73 months

Monday 9th September 2019
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I used to race karts, proper ones not turn arrive and drive type

Moving the seat was/is a no-no, by moving it backwards all your doing is undoing the karts balance, will promote understeer if anything.

I would have loved to move it as I’m 6foot so my legs were to cramped up

The lighter drivers who needed ballast would secure the weights at the front of the kart, or preferably low down on the seat

julian64

Original Poster:

14,317 posts

257 months

Monday 9th September 2019
quotequote all
usn90 said:
I used to race karts, proper ones not turn arrive and drive type

Moving the seat was/is a no-no, by moving it backwards all your doing is undoing the karts balance, will promote understeer if anything.

I would have loved to move it as I’m 6foot so my legs were to cramped up

The lighter drivers who needed ballast would secure the weights at the front of the kart, or preferably low down on the seat
what do you think to the wobbly headed dog manoeuvre?

nickfrog

21,495 posts

220 months

Monday 9th September 2019
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Purity14 said:
Light weight people = faster on the straights, slower on the corners
Heavier people = slower on the straights, faster on the corners
Weight reduces lateral grip but increases traction.

ribiero

570 posts

169 months

Tuesday 10th September 2019
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nickfrog said:
Weight reduces lateral grip but increases traction.
Doesn't help for clutch engagement though (or going up that buckmore hill)


OP, those sodi rt8 karts have a fun powerband, which is why you see a lot of people spin in grip limited conditions (at say 1st hairpin) kick the rear out when they think they've got the kart settled and can apply full throttle. They're such weird karts.

kiseca

9,339 posts

222 months

Wednesday 11th September 2019
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nickfrog said:
Purity14 said:
Light weight people = faster on the straights, slower on the corners
Heavier people = slower on the straights, faster on the corners
Weight reduces lateral grip but increases traction.
Never understood why reducing weight makes all other forms of car faster everywhere including in corners, but not in go-karts.

I know locked (or as in a kart, completely missing) differentials aren't that common in circuit racing but I'd be surprised if that's the difference. The only reason you'd want to pick one back wheel off the road in a kart (the leaning outwards thing) is to reduce understeer, surely?

osdecar

110 posts

72 months

Wednesday 11th September 2019
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julian64 said:
Okay, next time I will look like one of those wobbly headed dogs on a car dashboard and lean out around every bend.

I'm a little sceptical but I'll give it a try. I still think I'm missing something with the seat position though
I think you're just braking too hard.

When we try to go faster we tend to brake later and harder, but that does not work exactly like that in a go-kart, where is very easy to lock up the rear wheels. specially rented ones with low power and slippery tracks. You have to brake lightly and use a line that allows you to carry more speed through the corner.

Said that, the lean-out technique is still valid and will help you, specially around tight corners.

Frimley111R

15,747 posts

237 months

Wednesday 11th September 2019
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Karting is a like all motor racing, its often a few small errors that over a lap add up and over many laps make one driver seem so much quicker than another.

I was quite slow around the track in the higher 52s but one point i did notice is that fitness is a big challenge too. We did 10 laps in the hot weather and most people looked like they'd done 2 hours! And in the 66 lap race I my arms just weren't up to the job of turning the steering wheel with enough force.

My friend has done a few thousand laps and he said I could knock 2 secs off quite easily. i was making similar errors to the OP, braking too much and lifting where i didn't need to.

I know weight can be an issue but there are plenty of guys who were far faster than me and even heavier.

nickfrog

21,495 posts

220 months

Wednesday 11th September 2019
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kiseca said:
Never understood why reducing weight makes all other forms of car faster everywhere including in corners, but not in go-karts.
It does in karting too, the same constraints apply, unless you're traction limited where weight helps traction (in the traction zones once you're not lat grip limited, ie when you open the steering) but doesn't in all other situations.

kiseca

9,339 posts

222 months

Thursday 12th September 2019
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nickfrog said:
kiseca said:
Never understood why reducing weight makes all other forms of car faster everywhere including in corners, but not in go-karts.
It does in karting too, the same constraints apply, unless you're traction limited where weight helps traction (in the traction zones once you're not lat grip limited, ie when you open the steering) but doesn't in all other situations.
OK yeah, and I guess that's possibly more about, to steal a quote from some BMW engineer years ago, it's not about what it weighs, it's about where it weighs.

Like a 911, the weight out the back makes it prone to oversteer on the way in to the corner, but gives fabulous traction on the way out. If you made it heavier but kept the same distribution, you'd make it slower. If you kept it the same weight and changed the distribution, you'd make it faster or slower or just different - and probably the change there would be more dependent on what the driver deals with better.