Emira V6 reviews out - Anyone cancelled or changed to i4 ???

[Gibbo205]

Hi there

So a mixed bag on reviews.

Those who have orders locked in and were set on a V6 manual, have the array of reviews made you consider cancelling your order or changing over to an AMG powered car?

I am somewhat tempted to see if I can change my order to an i4 AMG base car and I will keep flying the V6 flag and keep my Exige alongside it.


I have heard Chris Harris thinks the V6 is awesome and his review airs in this series on Top Gear and potentially this Sunday, if Harris says its the next best thing will be interesting, I think he tested the white 007 VP car, was that on Cup 2 tyres and sports suspension can anyone remember?

The studio has a green car, not sure if they drive this on the road or not though, this Sunday should reveal.

[BertBert]

I've changed to i4 based partly on reviews, partly on the fact that I didn't really gell with the v6 in my evora

[av185]

Bit of a cock up overall from Lotus letting the Press test unfinished pre production cars especially on track with Goodyear F1s.

However as ever I'd take most of the reviews thus far with a pinch of salt especially Bovingdons which appeared a joke although Harry Metcalfs appeared resonably good and relatively impartial overall despite him having obvious skin in the game with an FE V6 on order.

Await the Harris review with interest hopefully on TG this Sunday.

Tend to think the Emira will be a good package and usable overall daily lukewarm car with obviously stunning looks and a decent interior but as a driver focused car it will as expected and previously posted fall well short of Porsche offerings particularly the 718 GT4 despite recent price increases and stopping production.

Difficult to decide what the V6 is all about and drawbacks of the engine and drivetrain overall without a proper test drive which should be possible soon I've deferred and changed my order to Spring 2023 currently favouring the £4k cheaper I4 FE which atm appears to be the more attractive alternative.

[Redline88]

Yeah, I’m really surprised how the reviews turned out especially after pretty glowing praise from all around the VP car which was doing the rounds a few months back.

Yes the issues around set up and tyres probably have something to do with it but the criticisms of the gearbox and pedal placement seem to vary between journos and do hint towards a lack of quality control.

Why on earth Lotus decided to give the motoring press cars which were not 100% dynamically when it was clear that it would be in comparison tests straight away is beyond me. Unless of course these cars really are the finished article in which case it’s a real shame from what I’ve read.

I personally don’t want another turbo and only want a manual so it has to be the V6 lump for me although I do think that the AMG unit sounds like it could improve a lot of the issues.

I’m set to be driving it for the day the week after next though so will wait until then to make a final call.

[CrgT16]

I would go for a V6 with manual and touring suspension. Saying that if I was ordering I would want to see what the i4 sounds like.

Is there a substantial weight savings compared to the V6?

What are the lead times for an order placed now?

[BertBert]

Redline88 said:

I’m set to be driving it for the day the week after next though so will wait until then to make a final call.

That sounds fun. How have you managed that?

[Redline88]

BertBert said:

Redline88 said:

I’m set to be driving it for the day the week after next though so will wait until then to make a final call.

That sounds fun. How have you managed that?

I just booked a day with the Lotus Driving Academy which is back up and running again. I did the old silver and gold levels a couple of years back when they used the Elise / Exige and it was a great day out so thought it would be a good opportunity to properly try the car before committing. Really just hoping that the car is what I expected and there’s just been a few adjustment issues in those press cars.

If you’re interested in the LDA then they have various options from a short blast on the Hethel test track up to the full day programme. If it’s anywhere near as good as it was historically then it should be great.

[DMZ]

Excellent. Be great to hear what you think of it.

[ajap1979]

CrgT16 said:

Is there a substantial weight savings compared to the V6?

It's only 30kg.

[av185]

CrgT16 said:

I would go for a V6 with manual and touring suspension. Saying that if I was ordering I would want to see what the i4 sounds like.

Is there a substantial weight savings compared to the V6?

What are the lead times for an order placed now?

Last info on UK lead times ordering now is c70 weeks. Be interesting seeing whether this reduces or increases following the reviews.

Other aspect to consider against the i4 apart from the weightier gearbox (but lighter engine) is the likely parasitic losses from the dct gearbox which will inevitably effectively reduce the 360 bhp further so possibly actual maybe c350bhp at the driven wheels whereas the V6 will presumably have the full headline spec bhp figure.

[Gasolina]

av185 said:

Last info on UK lead times ordering now is c70 weeks. Be interesting seeing whether this reduces or increases following the reviews.

Other aspect to consider against the i4 apart from the weightier gearbox (but lighter engine) is the likely parasitic losses from the dct gearbox which will inevitably effectively reduce the 360 bhp further so possibly actual maybe c350bhp at the driven wheels whereas the V6 will presumably have the full headline spec bhp figure.

Why should the DCT have significantly more parasitic losses than a manual then?

[Gibbo205]

Gasolina said:

Why should the DCT have significantly more parasitic losses than a manual then?

It is totally not an issue, you'd never notice it.

What you will notice is the shorter ratios and quicker shift, so with DCT 360HP will feel more like 400+ HP. Hence why the DCT is 4.2s VS 4.3s for the V6.

The 400HP DCT car in China is like 3.8-3.9s so it is fair to say the AMG DCT with 450HP will be around 3.5s tuned.

[Gasolina]

Gibbo205 said:

It is totally not an issue, you'd never notice it.

What you will notice is the shorter ratios and quicker shift, so with DCT 360HP will feel more like 400+ HP. Hence why the DCT is 4.2s VS 4.3s for the V6.

The 400HP DCT car in China is like 3.8-3.9s so it is fair to say the AMG DCT with 450HP will be around 3.5s tuned.

I'm sure it isn't an issue.

My point was that from the research I've read in terms of transmission characteristics, a modern DCT is said to be on par with a manual geartbox in term of parasitic losses and beats all-comers (manual, slush-box and CVT) on efficiencies in terms of economy and acceleration.

This is why they are taking over the world whether we like it or not.

Edited by Gasolina on Friday 10th June 13:02

[bcr5784]

Gasolina said:

I'm sure it isn't an issue.

My point was that from the research I've read in terms of transmission characteristics, a modern DCT is said to be on par with a manual geartbox in term of parasitic losses and beats all-comers (manual, slush-box and CVT) on efficiencies in terms of economy and acceleration.

This is why they are taking over the world whether we like it or not.

Edited by Gasolina on Friday 10th June 13:02

All things being equal a DCT will have more losses simply because more gears are in mesh. As has been said this is offset by lower ratios, faster changes and (in this case) more low end torque.

[Panamax]

Gasolina said:

a modern DCT ...... beats all-comers (manual, slush-box and CVT) on efficiencies in terms of economy and acceleration.

This is why they are taking over the world whether we like it or not.

Bang on target. And never forget the BIG problem with engineering any manual these days - the high risk of abuse by the driver. Stick a computer in the middle and that risk goes away.

[Gasolina]

bcr5784 said:

All things being equal a DCT will have more losses simply because more gears are in mesh. As has been said this is offset by lower ratios, faster changes and (in this case) more low end torque.

I get where your'e coming from on the face of it but I've read numerous research suggesting otherwise.
.
See chapter 7 in this link as an example

National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine - Cost, Effectiveness, and Deployment of Fuel Economy Technologies for Light-Duty Vehicles. Washington, DC: The National Academies Press

Science FTW

Edited by Gasolina on Friday 10th June 14:01

[david-j8694]

The CAR magazine review is much more positive:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5sLT4mvZH8

They seem to suggest that, given how well they've seen a DCT and 4 pot combination work in the Alpine, it could prove to be a very good combo in the Emira. With the addition of supercar looks and better steering.

[otolith]

ajap1979 said:

CrgT16 said:

Is there a substantial weight savings compared to the V6?

It's only 30kg.

And as I understand it the I4 has an aluminium alloy subframe rather than a steel one as the V6 has - suspect that otherwise there would be sod all in it.

[bcr5784]

Gasolina said:

I get where your'e coming from on the face of it but I've read numerous research suggesting otherwise.
.
See chapter 7 in this link as an example

National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine - Cost, Effectiveness, and Deployment of Fuel Economy Technologies for Light-Duty Vehicles. Washington, DC: The National Academies Press

Science FTW

Edited by Gasolina on Friday 10th June 14:01

The discussion on transmissions is in Chapter 5 not 7 and says the DCT losses are similar to manual transmissions - ignoring the fact that DCTs have more gears in mesh at any one time. They are really making the point that they are far more efficient than slushboxes. Have a look at Porsche cars and you will find that PDK (DCT) models have (slightly) lower top speeds than their manual counterparts as a result of the (albeit small) extra parasitic losses.

Now, of course the extra (higher) gearing that the extra ratios allow can certainly make the parasitic losses of the engine lower by needing fewer revs so the car AS A WHOLE, has at least at cruising speeds, less parasitic losses despite the gearbox having slightly more.

[Gasolina]

bcr5784 said:

The discussion on transmissions is in Chapter 5 not 7

Please accept my humble apologies.I thought it was 7 from memory

I starting looking into it a couple of years ago as the VW tuners seemed to be seeing no discernible difference in peak WHP between the DSG and manual cars, it piqued my geeky interest to try and understand why.

Anyways, to get back on topic, I'm sure I will be happy with my First Edition DCT when it arrives