Anyone placed an Order for the Taycan yet?
Discussion
DIMBA said:
Just placed the order on a 'Turbo' (can't get used to that) & I really can't wait.
Expecting delivery in June/July
3 phase supply at work with Anderson chager at home, so hopefully range anxiety covered.
Met Black with Black/Red interior.
Which OPC did you put the deposit on with? That sounds pretty fast delivery time if only putting on deposit now.Expecting delivery in June/July
3 phase supply at work with Anderson chager at home, so hopefully range anxiety covered.
Met Black with Black/Red interior.
SpyderT said:
As a business owner with 3 phrase on the drive is a 4S a no-brainer to lease as it's essentially a freebie car? I've been told GFV is 60% - higher than any other Porsche model. My OPC seems to think once you've test driven one you'll want it although I'm sceptical as concerns are about the lack of soul, silence and size. Anyone else as undecided? Will investigate insurance.
Looking at this too from S/e company (or rather ltd co) point of view. Quoted GFV 60%, insurance slightly on high side as will be under company name (rather than individual) at just over £1100, 9000miles.Can't quite get my head round the figures though - 100% FYA & no BIK doesn't mean free car in reality does it, as the company profits are dented nevertheless?
Is it simply more economical to buy outright via ltd co, entire £100k FYA offset & then sell 2yrs later to myself to then sell on open market?
a bit confused on this one because of the high GFV, no BIK etc
londonlaw said:
Looking at this too from S/e company (or rather ltd co) point of view. Quoted GFV 60%, insurance slightly on high side as will be under company name (rather than individual) at just over £1100, 9000miles.
Can't quite get my head round the figures though - 100% FYA & no BIK doesn't mean free car in reality does it, as the company profits are dented nevertheless?
Is it simply more economical to buy outright via ltd co, entire £100k FYA offset & then sell 2yrs later to myself to then sell on open market?
a bit confused on this one because of the high GFV, no BIK etc
Same situation as you and also have a Taycan 4S coming this Summer..Basically if you claim 100% FYA through your business when new and intend to sell it to your self after the end of the 2yrs for private use then this transaction will deemed to be the company's taxable income..Whichever way you cook it the only way to avoid paying income tax when you sell it is to keep it within the company..Can't quite get my head round the figures though - 100% FYA & no BIK doesn't mean free car in reality does it, as the company profits are dented nevertheless?
Is it simply more economical to buy outright via ltd co, entire £100k FYA offset & then sell 2yrs later to myself to then sell on open market?
a bit confused on this one because of the high GFV, no BIK etc
I asked my accountant a couple of years ago if i was to gift my Hybrid to my wife would i avoid paying tax..Apparently not as the IR are aware of this loophole.
Taffy66 said:
Same situation as you and also have a Taycan 4S coming this Summer..Basically if you claim 100% FYA through your business when new and intend to sell it to your self after the end of the 2yrs for private use then this transaction will deemed to be the company's taxable income..Whichever way you cook it the only way to avoid paying income tax when you sell it is to keep it within the company..
I asked my accountant a couple of years ago if i was to gift my Hybrid to my wife would i avoid paying tax..Apparently not as the IR are aware of this loophole.
I guess leasing & handing over in 3yrs, & with the monthly lease 100% deductible is the only financially sensible way forwards? Till Boris decides to end zero BIK rates.....I asked my accountant a couple of years ago if i was to gift my Hybrid to my wife would i avoid paying tax..Apparently not as the IR are aware of this loophole.
Need an accountant in this taycan forum.
Yup, “balancing charges” will offset a large part of the year 1 WDA which, at best, kicks the tax liability can down the road.
You can’t simply “sell the car for less than market rate” and avoid tax as I understand it. But, and I do wonder, if you chopped it in after, say, 4 years could you get the transaction to look more favourable (I.e low px and discounted against a new car), but it’s still really just delaying the tax bill for a few years IMHO.
I’m not sure how it’s treated on the balance sheet as it’s effectively a future liability (the balancing charge) but I know it’s not shown on my company b/s despite me doing the same with an i8 in 2015 (that I still own).
One for the pro accountants, I guess.
You can’t simply “sell the car for less than market rate” and avoid tax as I understand it. But, and I do wonder, if you chopped it in after, say, 4 years could you get the transaction to look more favourable (I.e low px and discounted against a new car), but it’s still really just delaying the tax bill for a few years IMHO.
I’m not sure how it’s treated on the balance sheet as it’s effectively a future liability (the balancing charge) but I know it’s not shown on my company b/s despite me doing the same with an i8 in 2015 (that I still own).
One for the pro accountants, I guess.
MrOrange said:
Yup, “balancing charges” will offset a large part of the year 1 WDA which, at best, kicks the tax liability can down the road.
You can’t simply “sell the car for less than market rate” and avoid tax as I understand it. But, and I do wonder, if you chopped it in after, say, 4 years could you get the transaction to look more favourable (I.e low px and discounted against a new car), but it’s still really just delaying the tax bill for a few years IMHO.
I’m not sure how it’s treated on the balance sheet as it’s effectively a future liability (the balancing charge) but I know it’s not shown on my company b/s despite me doing the same with an i8 in 2015 (that I still own).
One for the pro accountants, I guess.
The car is placed in its own pool..Leasing or contract hire is the only way not a incur tax when you hand it back..I checked today and the Taycan 4s has a GFV of 64% after three years and 30k miles on Porsche's website..The way i look at it is when you sell a hybrid or Taycan 100% of the depreciation is allowable against taxable income..Can reduce the depreciation by as much as 47% or if it keeps your taxable income 1p below the £100K threshold stop you losing your personal allowance..You can’t simply “sell the car for less than market rate” and avoid tax as I understand it. But, and I do wonder, if you chopped it in after, say, 4 years could you get the transaction to look more favourable (I.e low px and discounted against a new car), but it’s still really just delaying the tax bill for a few years IMHO.
I’m not sure how it’s treated on the balance sheet as it’s effectively a future liability (the balancing charge) but I know it’s not shown on my company b/s despite me doing the same with an i8 in 2015 (that I still own).
One for the pro accountants, I guess.
I’d like to say I understand that, but perhaps you can help me?
- Bought car for £115k
- Claimed 1st year WDA of (equivalent) 40% (I’m an LLP, and higher tax) so reduced my tax bill by circa £45k in that first year. Nice.
- If I sell the car, or move it out of the co, then I will have to add, say £45k, to profits for that year hence pay the tax on that £45k. Not so nice.
MrOrange said:
I’d like to say I understand that, but perhaps you can help me?
You've got it..To simplify i'd go with this:- Bought car for £115k
- Claimed 1st year WDA of (equivalent) 40% (I’m an LLP, and higher tax) so reduced my tax bill by circa £45k in that first year. Nice.
- If I sell the car, or move it out of the co, then I will have to add, say £45k, to profits for that year hence pay the tax on that £45k. Not so nice.
2020 Buy new Taycan Turbo at £115K - £46K income tax saving = Actual cost of car £69K
2023 Sell it or PX car for £80k- £32K income tax liability = in effect get £48K
Total loss in depreciation over 3yrs and 30k miles is £21k or £7k annually which is very good IMO.
MrOrange said:
Yup, “balancing charges” will offset a large part of the year 1 WDA which, at best, kicks the tax liability can down the road.
You can’t simply “sell the car for less than market rate” and avoid tax as I understand it. But, and I do wonder, if you chopped it in after, say, 4 years could you get the transaction to look more favourable (I.e low px and discounted against a new car), but it’s still really just delaying the tax bill for a few years IMHO.
I’m not sure how it’s treated on the balance sheet as it’s effectively a future liability (the balancing charge) but I know it’s not shown on my company b/s despite me doing the same with an i8 in 2015 (that I still own).
One for the pro accountants, I guess.
Market rate in even 3 years will be a lot less than £80k IMV, which may actually reduce liability moving forward. You can’t simply “sell the car for less than market rate” and avoid tax as I understand it. But, and I do wonder, if you chopped it in after, say, 4 years could you get the transaction to look more favourable (I.e low px and discounted against a new car), but it’s still really just delaying the tax bill for a few years IMHO.
I’m not sure how it’s treated on the balance sheet as it’s effectively a future liability (the balancing charge) but I know it’s not shown on my company b/s despite me doing the same with an i8 in 2015 (that I still own).
One for the pro accountants, I guess.
However, who in their right mind would purchase a second hand version, on old tech, and miss out on the 1st year 100% WDA. So in effect is as you say, you’re simply kicking the tax bill down the road, and saddling yourself with a significant unknown liability which you could easily be stuck with unless you’ve agreed a good deal on a Lease/GVF.
Then there’s the real issue....just look at it
Robbo66 said:
Market rate in even 3 years will be a lot less than £80k IMV, which may actually reduce liability moving forward.
However, who in their right mind would purchase a second hand version, on old tech, and miss out on the 1st year 100% WDA. So in effect is as you say, you’re simply kicking the tax bill down the road, and saddling yourself with a significant unknown liability which you could easily be stuck with unless you’ve agreed a good deal on a Lease/GVF.
Then there’s the real issue....just look at it
Porsche's GFV on a 36 month 30mile Taycan Turbo is set at £71609..Porsche always give more than the GFV when you PX it for a new one..If you sign up a PCP for less mileage, say 20k miles then i'd expect the GFV will be close to £80K..Taking the WDA into account and the high GFV for a high rate paying SE business owner this is very cheap motoring for a £115k car IMHO.However, who in their right mind would purchase a second hand version, on old tech, and miss out on the 1st year 100% WDA. So in effect is as you say, you’re simply kicking the tax bill down the road, and saddling yourself with a significant unknown liability which you could easily be stuck with unless you’ve agreed a good deal on a Lease/GVF.
Then there’s the real issue....just look at it
Taffy66 said:
Robbo66 said:
Market rate in even 3 years will be a lot less than £80k IMV, which may actually reduce liability moving forward.
However, who in their right mind would purchase a second hand version, on old tech, and miss out on the 1st year 100% WDA. So in effect is as you say, you’re simply kicking the tax bill down the road, and saddling yourself with a significant unknown liability which you could easily be stuck with unless you’ve agreed a good deal on a Lease/GVF.
Then there’s the real issue....just look at it
Porsche's GFV on a 36 month 30mile Taycan Turbo is set at £71609..Porsche always give more than the GFV when you PX it for a new one..If you sign up a PCP for less mileage, say 20k miles then i'd expect the GFV will be close to £80K..Taking the WDA into account and the high GFV for a high rate paying SE business owner this is very cheap motoring for a £115k car IMHO.However, who in their right mind would purchase a second hand version, on old tech, and miss out on the 1st year 100% WDA. So in effect is as you say, you’re simply kicking the tax bill down the road, and saddling yourself with a significant unknown liability which you could easily be stuck with unless you’ve agreed a good deal on a Lease/GVF.
Then there’s the real issue....just look at it
We could have our very own Arizona Boneyard for them
Porsche etc must be lobbying hard for a transferable WDA, but can’t see that happening.
I’ve no idea of what residuals are like on EV’s to date but my understanding is the next development in batteries is them becoming cheaper in three to five years rather than suddenly a huge increase in capacity. So that will have an impact but again I have no idea on what % of the cost of a Taycan is the battery.
I think the one thing about EV residuals compared to what we see in cars today is that you won’t see the levelling off in depreciation after say three years like you do with most cars....it will just keep going as EV’s continually get better and cheaper.
I think the one thing about EV residuals compared to what we see in cars today is that you won’t see the levelling off in depreciation after say three years like you do with most cars....it will just keep going as EV’s continually get better and cheaper.
Taffy66 said:
You've got it..To simplify i'd go with this:
2020 Buy new Taycan Turbo at £115K - £46K income tax saving = Actual cost of car £69K
2023 Sell it or PX car for £80k- £32K income tax liability = in effect get £48K
Total loss in depreciation over 3yrs and 30k miles is £21k or £7k annually which is very good IMO.
nice2020 Buy new Taycan Turbo at £115K - £46K income tax saving = Actual cost of car £69K
2023 Sell it or PX car for £80k- £32K income tax liability = in effect get £48K
Total loss in depreciation over 3yrs and 30k miles is £21k or £7k annually which is very good IMO.
Taffy66 said:
You've got it..To simplify i'd go with this:
2020 Buy new Taycan Turbo at £115K - £46K income tax saving = Actual cost of car £69K
2023 Sell it or PX car for £80k- £32K income tax liability = in effect get £48K
Total loss in depreciation over 3yrs and 30k miles is £21k or £7k annually which is very good IMO.
I calculate leasing cost would be about that too, on assumption it's fully offset via ltd co & limited to 10k mileage & assuming GFV 60%2020 Buy new Taycan Turbo at £115K - £46K income tax saving = Actual cost of car £69K
2023 Sell it or PX car for £80k- £32K income tax liability = in effect get £48K
Total loss in depreciation over 3yrs and 30k miles is £21k or £7k annually which is very good IMO.
WCZ said:
Taffy66 said:
You've got it..To simplify i'd go with this:
2020 Buy new Taycan Turbo at £115K - £46K income tax saving = Actual cost of car £69K
2023 Sell it or PX car for £80k- £32K income tax liability = in effect get £48K
Total loss in depreciation over 3yrs and 30k miles is £21k or £7k annually which is very good IMO.
nice2020 Buy new Taycan Turbo at £115K - £46K income tax saving = Actual cost of car £69K
2023 Sell it or PX car for £80k- £32K income tax liability = in effect get £48K
Total loss in depreciation over 3yrs and 30k miles is £21k or £7k annually which is very good IMO.
Reduces corp tax bill by £8.6k
Total net cost is about £34.5k, or roughly £11,500 a year for 3 years. It’s a good deal for sure, especially as it’s company money and BIK is currently so low, but it’s still far over what you guys are talking - and you guys are talking Turbos, not even 4S.
The only thing is that I think Porsche prop up their GFVs by charging huge interest rates on their deals, and so have plenty of buffer to go high on the GFV as their profit on the finance is so big.
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