Taycan 4S Cross Turismo
Discussion
DMZ said:
Mind you, this article says "no" to the 150kW option: https://electricrevs.com/2019/11/19/should-porsche...
That's really interesting, thanks for sharing. So essentially, if there's a limited charging infrastructure where the charge station is only 400V, then the option allows you to accept the 400V. However, unlikely to be an issue. SWoll said:
russy01 said:
21ATS said:
Last night I did a spec comparison between the 4S we ordered and a Turbo to an indetical spec, the difference was £25k, but closer to £22K with absolute like for like spec as the upgraded interior is built into the turbo price.
For me, there's not £22K's worth of perfomance extra in the Turbo. Oh sure it's quicker. But I think you'd have to be on a drag strip to notice. Real world there seemed very little in it.
I did the same. I was hoping the Turbo had more bits that I had specced thrown in, but it didnt. I managed to get it down to approx £20k difference - which is hard to justify imo. For me, there's not £22K's worth of perfomance extra in the Turbo. Oh sure it's quicker. But I think you'd have to be on a drag strip to notice. Real world there seemed very little in it.
Obviously if you are planning to keep the car then that changes things and would need further consideration.
NicG said:
Yes, I tend to agree. The initial step off wasn’t quite as immediate as I was expecting although no lack of go once underway. There did seem to be a distinct ‘kick-down’ if you floored it so perhaps it defaults to the higher gear from rest if it is in ‘normal’ rather than in sport?
Yep. As per Harry's Garage review in everything but sport the car uses the longer gear from standstill and less power is delivered. Different beast in Sport and annoying how little the dealers know about this kind of thing.
Lots of people talking about contract hire rates. Whilst I'm still waiting for a definitive answer from my account my personal "fag packet" calculations are telling me we should be buying these not renting them for three years.
Remember also that on a contract hire deal you'll only be able to reclaim 50% of the vat if there is any personal use whatsoever.
At £1,160+vat per month on a 6+35 deal through Porsche and assuming you're reclaiming half the vat you're paying £52K over three years, or half the value of the car.
Of course you can offset the non vat part against Corporation tax that's £47,560 x 19% = £9,036.
So the hire costs around £41,000 over three years on a £100K list price - ish. Assuming I'm calculating this correctly (always open to be corrected by someone better informed).
If you have to have a new car every three years or can't stomach the idea of running one of these out of warranty then that may be the way forward.
Buying it - I'm waiting for a quote on a Business Finance lease purchase through a broker for both our cars. I'm yet to fully understand how much we can write down in year one on asset value. The guy I'm doing the finance through (mentioned earlier in this thread) was taking delivery of his Taycan Turbo today. His idea is buying it and keeping it long term writing down is value over an extended period. I have to say this made more sense to me and suits my driving requirements.
I do so few miles, I don't even commute ( my business is in the grounds of my property) both my current vehicles which I bought new are 4 and 5.5 years old respectively, with just under 20,000 miles on each of them. So I tend to keep a car for 5 to 6 years minimum if I buy it new. It smooths out the depreciation curve and I get better value from my cars. I'm also fortunate that I don't have a compulsion to have the latest and greatest thing.
I feel with the reduction in moving parts on these EV's and a 20,000 mile/two year service interval then hiring one for three years makes no sense for me. Now if you're doing 15K to 20K miles a year this dynamic changes dramatically.
Has anyone else crunched these numbers yet and have a better grasp of which is the better way to go for your own circumstances?
Remember also that on a contract hire deal you'll only be able to reclaim 50% of the vat if there is any personal use whatsoever.
At £1,160+vat per month on a 6+35 deal through Porsche and assuming you're reclaiming half the vat you're paying £52K over three years, or half the value of the car.
Of course you can offset the non vat part against Corporation tax that's £47,560 x 19% = £9,036.
So the hire costs around £41,000 over three years on a £100K list price - ish. Assuming I'm calculating this correctly (always open to be corrected by someone better informed).
If you have to have a new car every three years or can't stomach the idea of running one of these out of warranty then that may be the way forward.
Buying it - I'm waiting for a quote on a Business Finance lease purchase through a broker for both our cars. I'm yet to fully understand how much we can write down in year one on asset value. The guy I'm doing the finance through (mentioned earlier in this thread) was taking delivery of his Taycan Turbo today. His idea is buying it and keeping it long term writing down is value over an extended period. I have to say this made more sense to me and suits my driving requirements.
I do so few miles, I don't even commute ( my business is in the grounds of my property) both my current vehicles which I bought new are 4 and 5.5 years old respectively, with just under 20,000 miles on each of them. So I tend to keep a car for 5 to 6 years minimum if I buy it new. It smooths out the depreciation curve and I get better value from my cars. I'm also fortunate that I don't have a compulsion to have the latest and greatest thing.
I feel with the reduction in moving parts on these EV's and a 20,000 mile/two year service interval then hiring one for three years makes no sense for me. Now if you're doing 15K to 20K miles a year this dynamic changes dramatically.
Has anyone else crunched these numbers yet and have a better grasp of which is the better way to go for your own circumstances?
Also - what do you "get" for the interior leather upgrade? I actually like the Black/Chalk beige interior which is one of the no cost options, I think it goes nicely with the Cherry paint. It is available as an extra with the nearly £3K in uplift.
I understand you get the dash trimmed and the door cappings but is there anything else, is it a "better" quality leather or something?
I'm actually looking forward to seeing one of these in the flesh. Tonbridge are expecting showroom models to start arriving in July so we should get a chance to have a better look.
I understand you get the dash trimmed and the door cappings but is there anything else, is it a "better" quality leather or something?
I'm actually looking forward to seeing one of these in the flesh. Tonbridge are expecting showroom models to start arriving in July so we should get a chance to have a better look.
BorkBorkBork said:
We are buying. Deduct the full cost from profits with the first year allowance.
This is also my preferred choice, however how much are you deducting for private use from the year one allowance? It's that part I'm struggling with.You realise you can't write down 100% of the cost unless it's a pool vehicle and is never parked at your house right?
My understanding of this is also that when the vehicle is sold you have to refund the relevant amount of CT against the sale price at the time. Hence my choice to keep long term.
Edited by 21ATS on Friday 28th May 19:54
21ATS said:
This is also my preferred choice, however how much are you deducting for private use from the year one allowance? It's that part I'm struggling with.
You realise you can't write down 100% of the cost unless it's a pool vehicle and is never parked at your house right?
My understanding of this is also that when the vehicle is sold you have to refund the relevant amount of CT against the sale price at the time. Hence my choice to keep long term.
Of course, I’ll be at 50% private use. You realise you can't write down 100% of the cost unless it's a pool vehicle and is never parked at your house right?
My understanding of this is also that when the vehicle is sold you have to refund the relevant amount of CT against the sale price at the time. Hence my choice to keep long term.
Edited by 21ATS on Friday 28th May 19:54
BorkBorkBork said:
Longest journey I do regularly is approx 50 miles. If and when I use it to go further, planning stops to recharge in the UK looks straight forward. 18 months ago I might have agreed with you, but with the Ionity charging stations now nicely scattered across the land with their 350kw charging, and plenty of options for 50kw, I’m hoping it’s going to be relatively easy.
Was thinking about this today following listening to various podcasts on the subject. Tax incentives aside if a Hybrid had a genuine 50 mile electric range it would easily do the local/town stuff with the ice bit stepping in for the range stuff with zero inconvenience it would be perfect for me.
At the moment pure ev other than as a local snotter has to many inconveniences. Perhaps this will change in 2 or 3 years.
BorkBorkBork said:
We are buying. Deduct the full cost from profits with the first year allowance.
Surely when you come to sell you have a CGT balancing charge so net net, this really isn't as good as you think it is.Lease will give you a 1-2% BIK, 50% VAT claim and payments deductible for Corporation Tax.
When you do the maths and are exposed to the depreciation on them, add in the cost of finance if you have that, and there's zero chance of buying this car being cheaper than leasing it.
JJMatrixx said:
Surely when you come to sell you have a CGT balancing charge so net net, this really isn't as good as you think it is.
Lease will give you a 1-2% BIK, 50% VAT claim and payments deductible for Corporation Tax.
When you do the maths and are exposed to the depreciation on them, add in the cost of finance if you have that, and there's zero chance of buying this car being cheaper than leasing it.
It's this I'm still trying to figure out.Lease will give you a 1-2% BIK, 50% VAT claim and payments deductible for Corporation Tax.
When you do the maths and are exposed to the depreciation on them, add in the cost of finance if you have that, and there's zero chance of buying this car being cheaper than leasing it.
The trouble is we don't know what the depreciation curve of this car is, there's not enough data. Plus I intend to keep the car for some years. Maybe up to 7. Buying then stacks up as far as I can work out. But I'm a low mile user.
I'm yet to receive firm figures from either Porsche or my broker for the exact specs we've ordered, once I do I'll do some number crunching.
I think being able to keep our options open makes sense. I have zero doubt that once HMRC realise that this is actually a genuine benefit like it used it be, the door will be firmly closed. To that end being able to claim in full in year one has it's upsides.
Lets not forget though that the real benefit here is being able to buy within the realms of your business and not having to make a purchase using money removed from your company on which you've paid 40% tax before you even buy a car privately.
My Audi daily went for a service and MOT on Thursday, it's 4 year anniversary. It's covered just under 20,000 miles in that time, but only 3,000 in the last 12 months due to the lockdowns. I usually do around 6k-7k miles a year in each of my two cars. This year I did less than 5k between them.
So it seems paying for an 8K or 10K mile per year contract hire a bit daft in my case.
I don't think there's a one size fit's all solution here. For a user needing north of 15K+ miles per year I think contract hire might actually stack up.
I think being able to keep our options open makes sense. I have zero doubt that once HMRC realise that this is actually a genuine benefit like it used it be, the door will be firmly closed. To that end being able to claim in full in year one has it's upsides.
Lets not forget though that the real benefit here is being able to buy within the realms of your business and not having to make a purchase using money removed from your company on which you've paid 40% tax before you even buy a car privately.
My Audi daily went for a service and MOT on Thursday, it's 4 year anniversary. It's covered just under 20,000 miles in that time, but only 3,000 in the last 12 months due to the lockdowns. I usually do around 6k-7k miles a year in each of my two cars. This year I did less than 5k between them.
So it seems paying for an 8K or 10K mile per year contract hire a bit daft in my case.
I don't think there's a one size fit's all solution here. For a user needing north of 15K+ miles per year I think contract hire might actually stack up.
I imagine that as with most things tax related there is probably little in it whichever way it’s cut .
Another way of looking at it is what it really costs the individual in lost income .
Rough figures
Say £50k over 3 years cost to company , £40 k after corp tax reduction. As dividends , say £27k net . So it costs £750 per month .
Another way of looking at it is what it really costs the individual in lost income .
Rough figures
Say £50k over 3 years cost to company , £40 k after corp tax reduction. As dividends , say £27k net . So it costs £750 per month .
Talked to my OPC's Business Manager last week about the most tax friendly way of funding the Cross Turismo. The feedback he's had from some savvy clients is to use Business Lease purchase as opposes to a PCP.. The reasoning behind this is if using the latter you're implying that you fully intend to hand it back after the end of the PCP term which makes claiming the FY 100% WDA more difficult. This was after taking some professional tax advice.
You can't use PCP as a business anyway. It's personal finance and can only be done in a oersonal status.
A limited company has to use business finance lease with a balloon. Or HP. The difference being with BFL is the balloon isn't guaranteed and there's no option to hand back. You're committed to the full contract value.
A limited company has to use business finance lease with a balloon. Or HP. The difference being with BFL is the balloon isn't guaranteed and there's no option to hand back. You're committed to the full contract value.
Triple Six said:
Notice D Gibson was recommended on here a few pages ago, does anyone have any other lenders to recommend?
We have finance figures from Porsche for our 4S due mid-July, but keen to shop around.
Have you tried Lombard? I just went with them at 3.8% on 40k balance for my Porsche Cayenne due next week. We have finance figures from Porsche for our 4S due mid-July, but keen to shop around.
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