Dacia: an anomaly

[2xChevrons]

sjabrown said:

Dacia in the UK seem to be what Hyundai/Kia were 8-10 years ago, and what Skoda were 15-20 years ago. Cheap few thrills reliable motoring.

But the interesting thing about Dacia is that they are unashamedly saying "this car is cheap and basic". Offering a car with black plastic bumpers, untrimmed steel wheels and no radio these days is deliberately (and delightfully) off-message. Kia, Hyundai, Skoda, Lada, Moskovitch etc. at least pretended that they were on a par with the mainstream. Usually by saying, in effect "you can get the equipment of a Cortina XL for the price of an Escort Popular...you just have to buy from behind the Iron Curtain/the Pacific Rim." It was always about (appearing) to get something for nothing. Dacia make no bones that they're offering cars that are cheap, but not particularly cheap for what they are, because you don't get a lot.

Of course it also helps and (by and large) Dacias are very good cars from a reliability point of view and are more than good enough to drive. Value-for-money and no frills works best when the car is at least functional dependable and solidly-made, which a lot of the Eastern Bloc stuff, including old Dacias, of course, were not.

The closest parallel I can think of is Citroen's self-deprecating approach to marketing the 2CV, when they twigged that a lot of people liked it precisely because it was purely functional motoring that was cleverly designed and made no statement about you and in fact explicitly rejected all the image-driven, keeping-up-with-the-Jones marketing behind a lot of other cars.

This led to the 2CV adverts which compared it its 'closest competitors' which were a tortoise or a camel. Or said things like "The 2CV has a top speed of 70.5mph. The legal speed limit is 70mph, so that's just right!" or "The 2CV has the same number of wheels as Rolls-Royce." I can see Dacia doing a similar line today.

Edited by 2xChevrons on Sunday 4th March 21:26

[YankeePorker]

Friend works for Renault in France and spent quite a bit of time in Romania when they were starting the Dacia project. He said that Renault were quite upset about how much of their own market share they grabbed in France. They thought that their dyed in the wool Renault clients would largely stay with them, instead there was a bit of cannibalism and the sales of the lower margin cars took off.

Shows that maybe a lot of the clients don’t really car about all the electronics that they pack into modern cars, just see at is increasing complexity and decreasing reliability. Cheap and cheerful will do.

[Jimmy Recard]

2xChevrons said:

But the interesting thing about Dacia is that they are unashamedly saying "this car is cheap and basic". Offering a car with black plastic bumpers, untrimmed steel wheels and no radio these days is deliberately (and delightfully) off-message. Kia, Hyundai, Skoda, Lada, Moskovitch etc. at least pretended that they were on a par with the mainstream. Usually by saying, in effect "you can get the equipment of a Cortina XL for the price of an Escort Popular...you just have to buy from behind the Iron Curtain/the Pacific Rim." It was always about (appearing) to get something for nothing. Dacia make no bones that they're offering cars that are cheap, but not particularly cheap for what they are, because you don't get a lot.

Of course it also helps and (by and large) Dacias are very good cars from a reliability point of view and are more than good enough to drive. Value-for-money and no frills works best when the car is at least functional dependable and solidly-made, which a lot of the Eastern Bloc stuff, including old Dacias, of course, were not.

The closest parallel I can think of is Citroen's self-deprecating approach to marketing the 2CV, when they twigged that a lot of people liked it precisely because it was purely functional motoring that was cleverly designed and made no statement about you and in fact explicitly rejected all the image-driven, keeping-up-with-the-Jones marketing behind a lot of other cars.

This led to the 2CV adverts which compared it its 'closest competitors' which were a tortoise or a camel. Or said things like "The 2CV has a top speed of 70.5mph. The legal speed limit is 70mph, so that's just right!" or "The 2CV has the same number of wheels as Rolls-Royce." I can see Dacia doing a similar line today.

Edited by 2xChevrons on Sunday 4th March 21:26

Quite an interesting point. I suppose it's because Dacia is in it's place in Renault's hierarchy - no one at Renault wants Renault customers to buy Dacias instead so want to have some distance between them.

Some of those brands probably didn't want to limit themselves with that approach

[2xChevrons]

YankeePorker said:

Shows that maybe a lot of the clients don’t really car about all the electronics that they pack into modern cars, just see at is increasing complexity and decreasing reliability. Cheap and cheerful will do.

The French have always had a much more utilitarian approach to cars than we do. They also (at least in the countryside) tend to buy them outright when new and then run them until they fall apart. And for many years the tax system and the condition of many of the roads made a sporty car not only extremely expensive but largely pointless. So the result was a national preference for very well-engineered, practical, comfortable and rather sedate cars. Even their 'executive' cars, like the Citroen DS and the Renault 16, are strangely functional machines. For all the hot hatch fame, the Peugeot 205 mostly exists in the form of very basic, very slow, very diesel versions chugging around rural France. And the Renault Twingo was the last in the honourable line of European 'people's cars', designed from the inside out with no nod to style or status and sold as a single model with no trim levels or optional equipment. The original Twingo adverts said "You buy a car for yourself, not for other people" and, like Dacia, made a selling point of its no-nonsense image.

I can imagine a lot of those Dacia customers Renault angsted about losing were trading straight out of a very dented and sun-bleached Renault 4 GTL which had been worked hard but looked after since the mid-1980s. The Sandero, the Duster and the Oroch could have been tailor-made for provincial France. I suspect that to a large extent they were. It's just very pleasing to see that the same idea can take hold here in the UK too.

[sidaorb]

Jimmy Recard said:

Quite an interesting point. I suppose it's because Dacia is in it's place in Renault's hierarchy - no one at Renault wants Renault customers to buy Dacias instead so want to have some distance between them.

Some of those brands probably didn't want to limit themselves with that approach

One of the reason Renault is limiting what Dacias come to the UK, currently if you want an automatic your only choice is a 4x2 diesel Duster, whereas in Europe you can get all models with either auto boxes, also models are limited no Lodgy (7 seater) and no Dokker (Van derived) as both would directly effect the Renault equivelant sales.

[HTP99]

sidaorb said:

Jimmy Recard said:

Quite an interesting point. I suppose it's because Dacia is in it's place in Renault's hierarchy - no one at Renault wants Renault customers to buy Dacias instead so want to have some distance between them.

Some of those brands probably didn't want to limit themselves with that approach

One of the reason Renault is limiting what Dacias come to the UK, currently if you want an automatic your only choice is a 4x2 diesel Duster, whereas in Europe you can get all models with either auto boxes, also models are limited no Lodgy (7 seater) and no Dokker (Van derived) as both would directly effect the Renault equivelant sales.

Funny thing is, both the Kangoo van and Scenic don't really sell anymore and an auto Clio is way too expensive; the Lodgy and Dokker van would clear up here, I was told a few years ago that an auto Sandero was costed up for the UK but financially it wouldn't work.

[croyde]

I'm a car person and would love a Duster in it's most basic form.

I have just sold my 2016 Mustang GT 5.0 so could get one tomorrow. Sorely tempted and I love the idea of getting a radio from Halfords and wiring it in myself.

Been looking at s/h models on Autotrader for the last 2 years and boy do they keep their prices.

I reckon you could buy the basic model for £9,500, keep it 3 years and easily sell it on for £5,000 plus.

[Toaster Pilot]

I did that.... you’ll quickly realise aftermarket radios are still ste and buy an OEM one though (awaiting fitting)

[Jimmy Recard]

Toaster Pilot said:

I did that.... you’ll quickly realise aftermarket radios are still ste and buy an OEM one though (awaiting fitting)

I disagree, I like doing the aftermarket radio swap so it’s a bonus for me that they come without!

[Vocht]

Dacia are obviously doing well with their 'no frills' approach but surely it'll only be a matter of time now until a Chinese manufacturer come in with a similar offering at a lower price. On a side note, whilst looking at cheap chinese cars I came across this. Fantastic haha!

[Butter Face]

Vocht said:

Dacia are obviously doing well with their 'no frills' approach but surely it'll only be a matter of time now until a Chinese manufacturer come in with a similar offering at a lower price. On a side note, whilst looking at cheap chinese cars I came across this. Fantastic haha!

The problem that Chinese manufacturers have is the distribution and sales network.

Dacia UK basically opened doors on day 1 with a full dealer network, supply network, aftersales support and trained sales and service teams. No start up manufacture can offer or achieve that IMO.

Also, the brand is quite strong. They nailed the marketing, people ‘get’ that it’s basically a Nissan-Renault underneath. Chinese manufacturers don’t get that.

[Toaster Pilot]

Butter Face said:

The problem that Chinese manufacturers have is the distribution and sales network.

Dacia UK basically opened doors on day 1 with a full dealer network, supply network, aftersales support and trained sales and service teams. No start up manufacture can offer or achieve that IMO.

Also, the brand is quite strong. They nailed the marketing, people ‘get’ that it’s basically a Nissan-Renault underneath. Chinese manufacturers don’t get that.

Yep. Pretty much nailed the reasons why I even considered buying a Dacia let alone bought one - some fly by night Chinese firm with a ste importer (like the “LDV” vans currently available) is nowhere near the same proposition

See also MG - I gather parts for the MG6 are a right fk on to get a hold of since they stopped making them

[Dog Star]

Tannedbaldhead said:

I get that It's just if you read my OP (where I said I quite fancied one) you'll see that, in reality, for many, they don't work out as that cheap an option.

Some people see the price in the dealership and that is that. They refuse to see that the residual value and what you lose often makes owning the car no cheaper that running a more expensive car. In the meantime they're still driving a less nice car.

My dad is a perfect example: he's just bought a SsangYong Rexton (to be fair it's a very good, well put together car) - his reasoning was that the Toyotas etc were so expensive. However when he comes to get rid of it he is going to get absolutely spanked; I'll bet at say five years old he will be looking at a trade in value of about 5K whereas a car with better residuals will probably have lost a lot less.

[Jimmy Recard]

Dog Star said:

Some people see the price in the dealership and that is that. They refuse to see that the residual value and what you lose often makes owning the car no cheaper that running a more expensive car. In the meantime they're still driving a less nice car.

My dad is a perfect example: he's just bought a SsangYong Rexton (to be fair it's a very good, well put together car) - his reasoning was that the Toyotas etc were so expensive. However when he comes to get rid of it he is going to get absolutely spanked; I'll bet at say five years old he will be looking at a trade in value of about 5K whereas a car with better residuals will probably have lost a lot less.

Yep. Ssangyongs are great if you want to use it until it’s not worth repairing, but work out expensive if you swap cars regularly.

The Dacias seem to have strong residual values so far though, apart from maybe early Dusters with rust problems

[M1C]

I'm generally of the 'cheaper is better' thing on Dacias.

But...i do think that looks good.



Kind of like a....budget Audi Allroad look? (if you squint?)

And without the allroad obviously.

But yeah, i like it!

[sidaorb]

M1C said:

Kind of like a....budget Audi Allroad look? (if you squint?)

And without the allroad obviously.

But yeah, i like it!

Thanks, one of the reasons I like it too, I think similar to the Skoda Octavia Scout.

[croyde]

Toaster Pilot said:

I did that.... you’ll quickly realise aftermarket radios are still ste and buy an OEM one though (awaiting fitting)

The aftermarket in my e36 was about 100 quid. Controls the iPod and plays CDS. Did buy it a few years ago before Bluetooth but it's a great sounding unit.

Am I correct that even in the basic Duster, the wiring for the radio is in place as are the speakers?

[sidaorb]

croyde said:

The aftermarket in my e36 was about 100 quid. Controls the iPod and plays CDS. Did buy it a few years ago before Bluetooth but it's a great sounding unit.

Am I correct that even in the basic Duster, the wiring for the radio is in place as are the speakers?

Wiring yes, speakers not all

[Toaster Pilot]

Wiring for the head unit and wiring in the doors for the speakers (the front doors at least, I didnt look in the back)

All of the wiring has plugs on - but it's proprietary stuff so you need an ISO adaptor for the HU and either buy Renault fit speakers with the right plug on or chop the plugs off and fit standard spade connectors to make aftermarket speakers work

[HTP99]

As a Renault/Dacia dealer, we cannot get enough used Stepway Laureate TCe's, they are a licence to print money and they hold their money too.