Amateur rally in UK

[mslnd]

Hello,

I've used to drive in amateur rallies in Poland and after moving to UK I'm thinking about continuing, but I don't have any information how it works here. In Poland it was relatively cheap:
- stock car for ~500£ (Fiat Seicento )
- bucket seats, roll cage, suspension, safety equipment etc) - £800

Ok, I've probably have spent £4000 during a year just to prepare a car, but this is how much I needed to spend before my first rally (wanted to do this property and to feel safe)



I have few questions that would really help me

1. What are most popular entry level rally cars (rather cheap)?
2. How much does it cost to prepare this car to rally (just to be able to start, not to compete)?
3. What do I need to do with my car to be able to start? In Poland basically I could start with stock car, but after any modification (like e.g. bucket seats, roll cage) I was under different regulations, so I had to have more advanced setup (FIA compliant like roll cage, at least 4 point seatbelt, 2kg fire extinguisher etc)
4. How does it look when it comes to insuring such car: normal road insurance is ok?
5. Do I register it as a normal car? And can I drive in on road (e.g. to drive to a place where rally is starting) or I have to use car trailer?
6. Brainstorming: Any ideas how I can build this car while living in London (I want to do this by myself - except of welding)? Are there some groups where e.g. people are splitting cost of renting big garage where they are building a car (renting big garage and using it e.g. 2 days per week would be huge waste) ?
7. Are there some decent rally clubs that are worth joining before even starting rallying?
8. How competitive it is when it comes to cost? Is it possible to do this on budget or rather everyone is spending a lot of money to have best car possible and you can not compete when having basic one? Or maybe there are some rallies with budget limit, like e.g: anyone is obligated to sell you his car if you offers £1000 pounds for it, so no one spends more?
9. Are there some "very amateur" level rally events? Like e.g. rallying on track prepared on parking lot/old stadium etc
10. Btw. I would appreciate any useful resources (articles, forums where I can as the same question etc.) and any advice how to start rallying in UK without breaking piggy bank
11. Maybe some other series makes more sense on budget, like e.g. rally cross, racing etc? Btw. I'm not interested in karting

Edited by mslnd on Friday 5th April 11:45

[thepawbroon]

Hello,

First stop is this website:

http://www.gomotorsport.net/

I also live in London (well, Greater London - Carshalton).

I will answer in more detail shortly. Welcome to Pistonheads!

[andy97]

It may be worth joining the “British Rally Forum” and the “rally log in and natter” facebook group.

Lots of knowledgeable people there to guide you.

[thepawbroon]

Hi,

As promised here is a more detailed answer.

All rallying (and all 4-wheel motor sport) is the UK is governed by "Motorsport UK" https://www.motorsportuk.org/
The rules and regulations are contained in the "Blue Book" https://www.motorsportuk.org/assets/bluebook2019re...
It's a long complicated read so I'll summarise for you.

Around London there are roughly three levels of rallying:

Navigational Rally (sometimes referred to as 12-Car) - usually take place at night on open public roads, standard cars, no roll cage or helmets etc required, mainly a navigational exercise over 50-100 miles with some spirited driving required to keep on time. Entry fee £10-£25 or so.

Targa Rallying - usually take place during the day, on private land, standard cars with some modifications, roll cages allowed (some events require them) but not helmets etc. These are a test of speed, with the course made tight and twisty by cones and things, usually each test is 1 to 2 miles long, the event lasts all day with each car taking turns at the test. Entry Fee £40-£100 or so. Typical cars are Nissan Micra, Mazda MX5, Ford Escort Mk2, Fiesta ST, MG ZR, Rover 25, Suzuki Ignis etc. I do this with a standard 2003 Suzuki Ignis. Excellent fun and very good value for money.

Stage Rallying - usually take place on private land (race circuits, forests or military base), or more recently closed-public roads, using highly regulated modified fully-prepared rally cars with cage, seats, belts, fire extinguishers etc. Tests of speed, timed to the 1/10th of a second, each stage lasts between 2 and 10 miles (sometimes longer). This is the same format at the Wales Rally GB etc. Typical cars these days are Fiesta R5 and R2, Ford Escort Mk2 RS1800, Gp A and WRC Subaru Impreza, Mitsubishi Evo, also Vauxhall Astra / Nova, Nissan Micra etc. Entry fee £250-£500 per event, lots of fuel and tyres required.

I'd bet that you'd probably like Targa Rallying the best.

mslnd said:

Hello,

I've used to drive in amateur rallies in Poland and after moving to UK I'm thinking about continuing, but I don't have any information how it works here. In Poland it was relatively cheap:
- stock car for ~500£ (Fiat Seicento )
- bucket seats, roll cage, suspension, safety equipment etc) - £800

Ok, I've probably have spent £4000 during a year just to prepare a car, but this is how much I needed to spend before my first rally (wanted to do this property and to feel safe)


I have few questions that would really help me

1. What are most popular entry level rally cars (rather cheap)?
2. How much does it cost to prepare this car to rally (just to be able to start, not to compete)?

Navigational and Targa - can be zero - my Suzuki cost £400 and all I've done is add a sumpguard for peace of mind.
Stage Rallying - minimum £2000 - you could probably buy a fully-prepared car for £3000 if you're lucky.....
Here's one:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nissan-Micra-K11-1995-1...uQAAOSwDNRcn4ft

mslnd said:

3. What do I need to do with my car to be able to start? In Poland basically I could start with stock car, but after any modification (like e.g. bucket seats, roll cage) I was under different regulations, so I had to have more advanced setup (FIA compliant like roll cage, at least 4 point seatbelt, 2kg fire extinguisher etc)

Navigational and Targa - not much, a standard (stock) car will do - usually just a spill kit and warning triangle, maybe a first aid kit. £20 max. You can of course add more if you wish.

Stage Rallying - it's all described in Section R of the Blue Book, but basically roll cage, seats, harness, plumbed-in fire extinguishers, quite a few detailed things........

mslnd said:

4. How does it look when it comes to insuring such car: normal road insurance is ok?

Yes you generally need the car to have a standard MOT (technical certificate), VED (road tax) and be insured for the road. In addition, if the rally uses public roads, the organisers can sell you on-event insurance. The third party insurance for private land is covered by the event entry fee.

mslnd said:

5. Do I register it as a normal car? And can I drive in on road (e.g. to drive to a place where rally is starting) or I have to use car trailer?

Yes most rallies require the car to be road-registered, but you can drive to & from events. Many people (including me) do this for Targa rallies. Everyone does it for Navigational rallies and very few people do it for Stage Rallies.

mslnd said:

6. Brainstorming: Any ideas how I can build this car while living in London (I want to do this by myself - except of welding)? Are there some groups where e.g. people are splitting cost of renting big garage where they are building a car (renting big garage and using it e.g. 2 days per week would be huge waste) ?

Tricky - I have heard of this in London but don't know any specifics. I have my own garage at home.

mslnd said:

7. Are there some decent rally clubs that are worth joining before even starting rallying?

Absolutely yes - it would be good to help out and marshal / spectate on a few events to see what happens. There aren't really many clubs in London (there is London Irish Motor Club - but they generally compete in Ireland) but two I would recommend nearby are:

Farnborough & DMC https://fdmc.org.uk/
Chelmsford MC https://chelmsfordmc.co.uk/

mslnd said:

8. How competitive it is when it comes to cost? Is it possible to do this on budget or rather everyone is spending a lot of money to have best car possible and you can not compete when having basic one? Or maybe there are some rallies with budget limit, like e.g: anyone is obligated to sell you his car if you offers £1000 pounds for it, so no one spends more?

For Navigational - it's all about the navigator - so cost isn't important.

For Targa, its a little more about the driver, navigator and a little about the car. But not so much the cost. For example, in my £400 Suzuki Ignis, on the last rally (Bramley Targa) I was 11th overall out of 50 and won my class. And we had a great time overall.

For Stage Rallying - it's very much about the cost - the top guys will have cars costing over £100,000 and will spend a lot on fancy tyres, fuel, practice, coaching etc.

mslnd said:

9. Are there some "very amateur" level rally events? Like e.g. rallying on track prepared on parking lot/old stadium etc

Yes - this is pretty much what Targa Rallying is.

mslnd said:

10. Btw. I would appreciate any useful resources (articles, forums where I can as the same question etc.) and any advice how to start rallying in UK without breaking piggy bank

Here are some:

Everything about 12 Car Navigational Rallying near London:
http://www.mexson.plus.com/12carcapers.htm

Facebook Targa Rally Group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/334976716911168/

Facebook Rallying Group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/240676496133533/

British Rally Web forum (need to be a member to join)
https://www.britishrally.co.uk/forum/index.php?sid...

All the Targa Rallies of the year:
http://www.britishroadrallying.com/targa/

Some photos from a recent Targa Rally not too far from London:
https://www.mandhphotography.co.uk/p763706586


Details of a really good closed-road stage rally you could go and watch this month:
http://corbeauseatsrally.co.uk/

mslnd said:

11. Maybe some other series makes more sense on budget, like e.g. rally cross, racing etc? Btw. I'm not interested in karting

I think Autosolo might be something worth looking at - there's one in London area next month:
http://southerncarclub.com/?page_id=7912

Also, for spectating, the Crytsal Palace sprint looks like a good day or two out (I have competed in the past):
https://www.motorsportatthepalace.co.uk/

Edited by mslnd on Friday 5th April 11:45

[velocemitch]

Fantastic post, should be made a sticky.

[mslnd]

thepawbroon said:

Thank you, this is the best response that I've ever received on forum! It should definitely be sticky

I can see that targa rallies suits me best and maybe after some time I can switch to stage rallies.

Now I have to make car choice

[warch]

Circa 2002-2003 I used to take part in autotests at my local gravel pit. The cost was a car, usually a banger/MoT failure acquired from the nearest scrapyard, and usually returned there afterwards, plus a nominal charge (like 10 quid) to enter the competition.

The idea was that you'd do a series of driving manoeuvres, a bit like a gymkhana and then a series of timed laps around a rally stage on tracks around the gravel pit. No one really gave a st about the former, they were all there for the driving like a maniac rallying bit. All the local lads and their girlfriends all turned up to watch. It was very much like a cross between stage rallying/a driving test and Fury Road.

No doubt that Health and Safety would st a lung if anyone suggested doing that sort of thing today, but it was bloody good fun.

And yes excellent post above, very well informed.

[Galveston]

There's also sprinting and hillclimbing, which you can do in a standard road car.

This is me yesterday in a completely standard Clio, driven to and from the event...

YouTube link

[velocemitch]

warch said:

Circa 2002-2003 I used to take part in autotests at my local gravel pit. The cost was a car, usually a banger/MoT failure acquired from the nearest scrapyard, and usually returned there afterwards, plus a nominal charge (like 10 quid) to enter the competition.

The idea was that you'd do a series of driving manoeuvres, a bit like a gymkhana and then a series of timed laps around a rally stage on tracks around the gravel pit. No one really gave a st about the former, they were all there for the driving like a maniac rallying bit. All the local lads and their girlfriends all turned up to watch. It was very much like a cross between stage rallying/a driving test and Fury Road.

No doubt that Health and Safety would st a lung if anyone suggested doing that sort of thing today, but it was bloody good fun.

And yes excellent post above, very well informed.

Targa Rallying is not that far removed from that. OK perhaps a little more formalised but charging around in a quarry to see who’s quickest is pretty typical. Our clubs Ilkley Targa will be using a a couple of quarries along with a couple Airfields a reservoir access road and a nice private Tarmac lane. No MSa licence required just an MsUk club membership.

[thepawbroon]

mslnd said:

Thank you, this is the best response that I've ever received on forum! It should definitely be sticky

I can see that targa rallies suits me best and maybe after some time I can switch to stage rallies.

Now I have to make car choice

Thank you - good luck in your car purchase, drop me a PM anytime. Look out for me on events, real name Duncan Brown.

cheers, D

[warch]

velocemitch said:

warch said:

Circa 2002-2003 I used to take part in autotests at my local gravel pit. The cost was a car, usually a banger/MoT failure acquired from the nearest scrapyard, and usually returned there afterwards, plus a nominal charge (like 10 quid) to enter the competition.

The idea was that you'd do a series of driving manoeuvres, a bit like a gymkhana and then a series of timed laps around a rally stage on tracks around the gravel pit. No one really gave a st about the former, they were all there for the driving like a maniac rallying bit. All the local lads and their girlfriends all turned up to watch. It was very much like a cross between stage rallying/a driving test and Fury Road.

No doubt that Health and Safety would st a lung if anyone suggested doing that sort of thing today, but it was bloody good fun.

And yes excellent post above, very well informed.

Targa Rallying is not that far removed from that. OK perhaps a little more formalised but charging around in a quarry to see who’s quickest is pretty typical. Our clubs Ilkley Targa will be using a a couple of quarries along with a couple Airfields a reservoir access road and a nice private Tarmac lane. No MSa licence required just an MsUk club membership.

Super, I'd love to have a go at that. To be fair the autotests we did were probably a hideous accident waiting to happen, so a regulated version would probably be a good thing.

[gothatway]

I'm a bit late coming to this thread, but another active club in the south-east is Blackpalfrey in Maidstone; I believe they have a daytime 12-car series.

Also not mentioned above are historic rallies, a mixture of tests and regularities lasting anything from one day to five days. See HRCR and HERO websites for more details. Don't be misled into thinking that regularities are slow and boring; they add a challenge which many crews cannot cope with and can get frenetic, particularly if you go wrong ! But historics do of course require a historic car - usually pre-86 - which might mean they are of no interest to the OP.