2022 Rallying Thread (WRC, ERC and national rally)
Discussion
andy97 said:
I get it was a bit of a catty comment but I suppose a bit understandable when a dozen 150k Nowlers take over a service area designed/ designated to be shared.
Maybe they did not like sharing with a dozen or so £8k Minis?
There might have been a wider issue, my mate runs the Pirelli tyre support truck and posted on Facebook that they weren't in the service area as expected but in a layby down the road. It did get sorted though I think.Maybe they did not like sharing with a dozen or so £8k Minis?
John Goff is a long time champion of low cost rallying and should be lauded for it but it isn't the first time he has waded in when he thinks his initiatives are being overshadowed by others (BTRDA 1400s being an example). I believe the MINIs ran at the front of the field and the Bowlers at the back (140ish cars later), would have been interesting to see the times if it had been the other way around because apparently it was pretty rough. Also ex multiple British Champion Mark Higgins had problems on a couple of stages otherwise would have walloped all MINIs (and all Bowlers) on every stage, as you would expect though.
mfmman said:
andy97 said:
I get it was a bit of a catty comment but I suppose a bit understandable when a dozen 150k Nowlers take over a service area designed/ designated to be shared.
Maybe they did not like sharing with a dozen or so £8k Minis?
There might have been a wider issue, my mate runs the Pirelli tyre support truck and posted on Facebook that they weren't in the service area as expected but in a layby down the road. It did get sorted though I think.Maybe they did not like sharing with a dozen or so £8k Minis?
John Goff is a long time champion of low cost rallying and should be lauded for it but it isn't the first time he has waded in when he thinks his initiatives are being overshadowed by others (BTRDA 1400s being an example). I believe the MINIs ran at the front of the field and the Bowlers at the back (140ish cars later), would have been interesting to see the times if it had been the other way around because apparently it was pretty rough. Also ex multiple British Champion Mark Higgins had problems on a couple of stages otherwise would have walloped all MINIs (and all Bowlers) on every stage, as you would expect though.
Another ERC round last weekend; the Azores......it's not really grabbing people's attention, is it? Plus the non WRC Rally Mexico (Nations Rally).....
This weekend sees the Rallynuts Stages (formerly the Kerridge, Mutiny, Severn Valley) in mid Wales. I preferred it in it late May/early June slot, but it's another chance to get out and spectate, most probably in Sweetlamb.
This weekend sees the Rallynuts Stages (formerly the Kerridge, Mutiny, Severn Valley) in mid Wales. I preferred it in it late May/early June slot, but it's another chance to get out and spectate, most probably in Sweetlamb.
ERC has never really captured anyone's attention, despite Eurosport throwing money at it for years, a bit like WTCC and all its incarnations, it is occasional viewing only.
If WRC struggles then ERC will even more, the rallies are nice and the drivers top drawer, but it has never really caught on.
In the 80s and 90's it did a bit because of the A and B seeding stuff s Brits would do rallies all over the try and get A seeding for the RAC or other events, but that faded away, and in reality it never got any interest even in the press over here unless someone like Rothmans bused reporters out to cover it.
If WRC struggles then ERC will even more, the rallies are nice and the drivers top drawer, but it has never really caught on.
In the 80s and 90's it did a bit because of the A and B seeding stuff s Brits would do rallies all over the try and get A seeding for the RAC or other events, but that faded away, and in reality it never got any interest even in the press over here unless someone like Rothmans bused reporters out to cover it.
LukeBrown66 said:
ERC has never really captured anyone's attention, despite Eurosport throwing money at it for years, a bit like WTCC and all its incarnations, it is occasional viewing only.
If WRC struggles then ERC will even more, the rallies are nice and the drivers top drawer, but it has never really caught on.
In the 80s and 90's it did a bit because of the A and B seeding stuff s Brits would do rallies all over the try and get A seeding for the RAC or other events, but that faded away, and in reality it never got any interest even in the press over here unless someone like Rothmans bused reporters out to cover it.
Is that just a U.K. perception, though? I genuinely don’t know but ISTR that Peugeot and Renault , in particular, put a lot of effort in to it at one point. Indeed the F2 Maxi class largely grew out of the need to be successful in the ERC with its preponderance of fast tarmac rallies.If WRC struggles then ERC will even more, the rallies are nice and the drivers top drawer, but it has never really caught on.
In the 80s and 90's it did a bit because of the A and B seeding stuff s Brits would do rallies all over the try and get A seeding for the RAC or other events, but that faded away, and in reality it never got any interest even in the press over here unless someone like Rothmans bused reporters out to cover it.
I am sure they were mainly interested in wining their national championships that were very well televised and attracted immense crowds, if you look at footage of French rallies form that era, the crowds are immense in some places.
Other national series were popular too notably Spain that had amazing sponsors and great cars and teams, we also had a pretty good F2 series aswell, it was a boom tie, but I dont think the likes of Delecour, Ragnotti, Panizzi and Bugalski were really chasing ERC titles mainly national stuff.
Other national series were popular too notably Spain that had amazing sponsors and great cars and teams, we also had a pretty good F2 series aswell, it was a boom tie, but I dont think the likes of Delecour, Ragnotti, Panizzi and Bugalski were really chasing ERC titles mainly national stuff.
LukeBrown66 said:
I am sure they were mainly interested in wining their national championships that were very well televised and attracted immense crowds, if you look at footage of French rallies form that era, the crowds are immense in some places.
Other national series were popular too notably Spain that had amazing sponsors and great cars and teams, we also had a pretty good F2 series aswell, it was a boom tie, but I dont think the likes of Delecour, Ragnotti, Panizzi and Bugalski were really chasing ERC titles mainly national stuff.
Thats how i remember it too. Belgium and French tarmac national championship events were big, you often got the top runners from those series doing the Manx international. Other national series were popular too notably Spain that had amazing sponsors and great cars and teams, we also had a pretty good F2 series aswell, it was a boom tie, but I dont think the likes of Delecour, Ragnotti, Panizzi and Bugalski were really chasing ERC titles mainly national stuff.
andy97 said:
Is that just a U.K. perception, though? I genuinely don’t know but ISTR that Peugeot and Renault , in particular, put a lot of effort in to it at one point. Indeed the F2 Maxi class largely grew out of the need to be successful in the ERC with its preponderance of fast tarmac rallies.
I think you're right. When we had the IRC Rally Scotland (2009-2011), very few top British drivers supported the event. I know it's a generalisation, but we're not really into these series - and there is the cost. Most British crews just want to do a one day 45 mile event. I would say it is also expense, the Roger Albert is nearly always over subscribed but that is because it is a proper rally over numerous days, why has that example not been followed for other events, there is clearly an appetite for it, so much so, many crews save up for 2 years to do it.
ERC has never really been that popular other than a few events, Ypres, Antibes, Cyprus, Condroz Hunsruck and a few others, and mainly as they were coefficient 4, meaning your points was multiplied by 4, great, simple idea that helped some rallies and hindered others. Manx was coeff 4 so hence popular, Circuit was 1, so not at all.
S2000 helped a lot, but I also think having the same cars in WRC does not help, you ahve to series pulling for the same drivers, R5 should be WRC not both or vice versa.
ERC has never really been that popular other than a few events, Ypres, Antibes, Cyprus, Condroz Hunsruck and a few others, and mainly as they were coefficient 4, meaning your points was multiplied by 4, great, simple idea that helped some rallies and hindered others. Manx was coeff 4 so hence popular, Circuit was 1, so not at all.
S2000 helped a lot, but I also think having the same cars in WRC does not help, you ahve to series pulling for the same drivers, R5 should be WRC not both or vice versa.
LukeBrown66 said:
I would say it is also expense, the Roger Albert is nearly always over subscribed but that is because it is a proper rally over numerous days, why has that example not been followed for other events, there is clearly an appetite for it, so much so, many crews save up for 2 years to do it.
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I think you have answered your own questions - I don't think there is the competitors' demand nor organisational appetite to do such a large-scale rally more frequently. .
thepawbroon said:
I think you have answered your own questions - I don't think there is the competitors' demand nor organisational appetite to do such a large-scale rally more frequently.
i've just checked on ewrc for the Scottish Rally entries, for the early 80's. In 86 it was a 4 day event, as long as the RAC and had 95 entries, in 80 it was a five day event with 125 competitors.Cost has to have an impact - I think in those days you could compete in a road car with half a cage, hand held extinguisher and a helmet (no overalls necessary!) but 125 seems like a lot of competitors to have that kind of money lying around to do such a long event. And it's in Scotland so there'd be a few Southerners who won't make the trip.
There were however a reasonable number of foreigners, the likes of which we hardly see these days.
There were also more iconic and well known events like the Scottish but also Manx. But these events are not running these days for a variety of reasons but including complexity, land access and cost.
However I think the biggest concern is that there are much fewer rally drivers in the UK than there were 40 years ago. Most youngsters want to go trackdaying or circuit racing - it's a lot easier and a fair bit cheaper.
The move to closed road rallying might just invigorate the sport and encourage new blood. It might grow the number of competitors especially if you like the idea of driving down your local lanes as fast as possible.
Finally, motor clubs generally don't help with encouraging new blood into the sport. It's a bit of an old man's game.
I think the time is ripe for a complete root and branches review of rallying in the UK and set out a plan to move it towards a younger demographic and move away from the forests ( as that's not going to be an option within 5 years anyway). This might include a move to EV rallying only ( god forbid) but when you read up about the history of the RAC rally particularly the 30's and 50's it really was about the emergence of the car as a mass transport option and proving which was best by having tour around the country mixed with a few tests. Ironically if you re-ran the 1935 event with EV only you'd get somewhere near the spirit of that original event. Pioneering days!
Edited by Dynion Araf Uchaf on Friday 8th April 13:42
Yeah, something needs to happen. How many reports have we seen regards to rallying? And what ever changes....?? Nobody seems to want to change the status quo.......all the while the sport sleepwalks into oblivion.
How on earth do you manage to lose a historic event like the RAC?? I've said before it's bad enough it's not in the WRC, but it can't even run as a stand alone event. It beggars belief....
How on earth do you manage to lose a historic event like the RAC?? I've said before it's bad enough it's not in the WRC, but it can't even run as a stand alone event. It beggars belief....
LukeBrown66 said:
You used to be diving in to ditches, now you are 100 feet away watching a car accelerate around a bale because clubs, organisers are petrified of an accident.
Yes well of course we have concerns about spectators getting injured, who wouldn't? You have to understand that as a volunteer organiser I could still be held responsible for others' stupid actions. But it's fine you carry on winging about how good it was in the old days with no thought about the consequences in a modern society. I have said before and I say again what happens in other countries regarding spectator safety is irrelevant, to what happens in the UK. Because guess what If I have to go to court over a fatal or serious accident, I won't be able to use "well they do it in France" as a defence.
Any other rubbish you care to spout on this subject?
My point is that, there was a colossal over reaction, where is the evidence that spectating on rallies in the UK warrants this level of insanity with regard to insurance and safety, two incidents, one where certain people should have known better (and little fault was really to lay at the organisers from what the Judge said) and another when a huge amount of people turned up in a tricky area too quickly for the team there to properly cover it and stop the stage and a tragic accident occurred.
There must be incidents in other countries but they do not over react in the same way, why is that? You say it doesn't matter, I say it does as it proves our governing bodies and the people insuring our events have over risk assessed this great sport.
What you are saying is true, of course at the moment we have to do this, I don't care, you have to hence your attitude to this, why is more pressure not being applied to over turn this, using evidence from Italy, France, Belgium, Germany, Finland, Norway where they get far bigger crowds on some events and bigger crowds even on smaller ones.
Looking inward and being all woe is me there is nothing can be done, is fine but just inhibits the sport and its potential, I get why this is the case for now, but surely something could be done to try and get back to how things were in some ways, taking on board what has been learned and moving forward.
There must be incidents in other countries but they do not over react in the same way, why is that? You say it doesn't matter, I say it does as it proves our governing bodies and the people insuring our events have over risk assessed this great sport.
What you are saying is true, of course at the moment we have to do this, I don't care, you have to hence your attitude to this, why is more pressure not being applied to over turn this, using evidence from Italy, France, Belgium, Germany, Finland, Norway where they get far bigger crowds on some events and bigger crowds even on smaller ones.
Looking inward and being all woe is me there is nothing can be done, is fine but just inhibits the sport and its potential, I get why this is the case for now, but surely something could be done to try and get back to how things were in some ways, taking on board what has been learned and moving forward.
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