2022 Rallying Thread (WRC, ERC and national rally)
Discussion
LukeBrown66 said:
Hyundai sounded different this weekend new exhaust maybe, sounded more gruff, also they were using weird cut-outs in the back bumper and the odd car was also using those weird little packets in the front grill area, that I still have no idea what their purpose is? I thought they might be spots, but I don't think so, could they be ballast packets?
They are just rad blanking I think, Estonia was quite a lot cooler than recent events. Not sure there were any changes at the back?https://www.wrc.com/en/news/2022/wrc/m-sport-ford-...
M-Sport wanting another driver......all dependant on finances...as ever.
M-Sport wanting another driver......all dependant on finances...as ever.
I think other than parts of Wales, the Lakes and Scotland forest rallying is pretty much over anyway, in this country the ability to do that kind of thing flies in the face of a lot of what we are supposed to be doing, I have friends who ride off road enduro bikes, they face the same issue but most events are on private land so face less issues.
I do not think it will disappear, but I think it will be strictly limited to very few events, that is fine by me.
I do not think it will disappear, but I think it will be strictly limited to very few events, that is fine by me.
It's not that long ago the the RSAC Scottish was a 2 dayer, and part of the BRC. Remember going up many times to Ae, Glengap, Castle O'er, Clatteringshaws....(And going further back it was a proper multi day event).
It really is depressing to see all these historic UK events falling by the wayside; the sport really is in a mess here.
I recall about 15-20 years ago going to approx 20-30 events a year......the amount that has gone really is astonishing.
It really is depressing to see all these historic UK events falling by the wayside; the sport really is in a mess here.
I recall about 15-20 years ago going to approx 20-30 events a year......the amount that has gone really is astonishing.
ArnageWRC said:
https://www.wrc.com/en/news/2022/wrc/m-sport-ford-...
M-Sport wanting another driver......all dependant on finances...as ever.
Their driver line up looked weak from the moment they announced it. Even their lead driver is only doing his first ever full season.M-Sport wanting another driver......all dependant on finances...as ever.
ArnageWRC said:
It's not that long ago the the RSAC Scottish was a 2 dayer, and part of the BRC. Remember going up many times to Ae, Glengap, Castle O'er, Clatteringshaws....(And going further back it was a proper multi day event).
It really is depressing to see all these historic UK events falling by the wayside; the sport really is in a mess here.
I recall about 15-20 years ago going to approx 20-30 events a year......the amount that has gone really is astonishing.
but what do we do about it?It really is depressing to see all these historic UK events falling by the wayside; the sport really is in a mess here.
I recall about 15-20 years ago going to approx 20-30 events a year......the amount that has gone really is astonishing.
I don't mind fewer events, if they are of a better quality in terms of number of entrant, although I think we are fishing in a relatively small pool of drivers. Less is more I suppose.
Is the sport in better health any where else though ? I am guessing Finland and France it's in rude health, but what about Italy, New Zealand etc. The UK does have the additional impediment of the forestry commission, but moving away from the forests fundamentally impacts the DNA of UK rallying. However it might be the only option we have, and from what I can tell, rally drivers prefer tarmac from a car damage point of view.
If it requires a return on investment for rallying to prosper ( and it always amazes me the club members who spends months organising a rally, only for the profits to go to the club - but that's another issue) , then the MUK need to hire in 6 or so officials whose job it is to organise 15-20 rallies a year from WRC to clubman multi venue and make them at least break even, after paying for their salaries. But I suspect it is a political minefield with clubs competing against each other and not for the greater good of rallying.
On-board with Shane Van Gisbergen at Rally Hawkes Bay on Saturday: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyyILF1eHU4
He's going very well on gravel - it was an NZ Championship round (albeit missing Paddon and a few other regular contenders) and SVG won the first 3 stages before sliding off and getting stuck in mud on Stage 4.
He's going very well on gravel - it was an NZ Championship round (albeit missing Paddon and a few other regular contenders) and SVG won the first 3 stages before sliding off and getting stuck in mud on Stage 4.
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
Is the sport in better health any where else though ? I am guessing Finland and France it's in rude health, but what about Italy, New Zealand etc. The UK does have the additional impediment of the forestry commission, but moving away from the forests fundamentally impacts the DNA of UK rallying. However it might be the only option we have, and from what I can tell, rally drivers prefer tarmac from a car damage point of view.
NZ rallying is in good health - probably the strongest national championship field I've seen in many years (mixture of R5 and AP4 cars, which are fairly well matched overall), good turnouts of classics and most other classes, and plenty of spectators out on the stages. WRC finally returning to NZ this year should give it an extra boost too.Most of our rallying is on closed public roads, with a bit of forestry stuff here and there - I imagine you don't have as much in the way of public gravel roads in the UK though, we're a bit spoilt in that regard here. I live in a small town where I can be on fun gravel roads (some of which have been used as rally stages) within about 5 minutes drive from my house.
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
Is the sport in better health any where else though ? I am guessing Finland and France it's in rude health, but what about Italy, New Zealand etc. The UK does have the additional impediment of the forestry commission, but moving away from the forests fundamentally impacts the DNA of UK rallying. However it might be the only option we have, and from what I can tell, rally drivers prefer tarmac from a car damage point of view.
That's a good question, and EWRC website can provide some insight.A quick inspection of rallies in Italy and Spain shows that entry levels are in general lower than in GB, but almost all of the cars competing in non-historic events are fairly modern and homologated (or recently homologated). The national championships (same as France, Belgium, Spain, Netherlands) is based on closed public tarmac road events. What I also see from the sponsorship on board is that a multitude of small local businesses are supporting the crews. And in many cases the regional council (tourist promotion dept) are supporting the event.
I wonder if all those are connected?
In GB we had a period from June last year when there was a pent-up demand for entries in rallies, due to COVID stopping many of them beforehand. Now we are reaching an equilibrium, which is similar to the pre-COVID status - i.e. too many events / not enough competitors & volunteers.
There are certainly too many events in some places and date ranges. For example, in Scotland (plus Kielder) there was a stage rally every weekend from 18th June to 23rd July. That's 6 consecutive weekends. Unfortunately the RSAC Scottish came at the end of that cycle, and that along with some recent years of poor surfaces and the BTRDA series moving over the the Border Counties, has left an event with few entries and struggling for marshals. Some people in Scotland are trying to address the situation.
Are closed road rallies the solution?
Well, until recently I felt that the Forest agencies in England, Scotland and Wales were on the verge of kicking out motorsport and closed road motorsport was the only possibility.
New agreements have been signed so the presence is assured for a while. But I am sure the environmental and political landscape will eventually preclude rallying as we know it. Unless substantial environmental improvements are made (e.g. electrification, noise, less damaging tyres, lower emissions) then I can't see the nationally-owned forest estate being aligned with rallying. Which in general, is an expensive and impactful leisure pursuit compared to say orienteering.
Using closed roads for rallying addresses two key points:
1/ uses road which were designed for vehicles being the main user.
2/ bringing the sport nearer the people - which is good for community engagement and sponsorship.
But, as we have seen, closed road rallying is difficult to organise. I am aware of seven proposed closed road events (3 rallies, a rally timed trial and a 3 motorbike races) that have yet to see light of day due to the organisational complexity. I'm sure there are more.
I know we've all said it many times - the answer is for rallying to be much more in the public's consciousness as a "good thing". It has to bring substantial benefits to more than just the immediate participants. Rallies could become more like local festivals, putting on stuff for a wider audience than the hard core petrolhead.
No easy fix, but I think closed roads / town centre ceremonies / school engagement etc are all part of the solution.
Certainly, the Scottish has a reputation for being a bit rough. (Dave Bogie retired at the end of SS2 with 2 punctures and one spare. Nor was he the only one with puncture issues) That may in part not have helped with the entries, but is there something else happening? Is there a move for competitors to move to sealed surface rallying?
Drumroll said:
but is there something else happening? Is there a move for competitors to move to sealed surface rallying?
The closed road rallies that have taken place since the law change (Clacton x 3, Rali Ceredigion x 1, Three Shires x 2, Argyll x 2, East Riding x 1, North West Stages x 2) and those that pre-existed the law change (Mull, Jim Clark) have seen very healthy entries - from memory, most if not all have been oversubscribed at some point during the entry process.I'm not sure what the equivalent is with forest rallies, I know those in Wales have seen healthy entry levels but that's not been replicated across Scotland this year.
thepawbroon said:
I know we've all said it many times - the answer is for rallying to be much more in the public's consciousness as a "good thing". It has to bring substantial benefits to more than just the immediate participants. Rallies could become more like local festivals, putting on stuff for a wider audience than the hard core petrolhead.
No easy fix, but I think closed roads / town centre ceremonies / school engagement etc are all part of the solution.
I'd add to that effective promotion of the sport and events generally by MSUK and organisers engaging with those with the skills to help, be it writing or photographing or social media etc. Instead MSUK have a stupid accreditation scheme that has seen many just pack in as it's not worth the hassle and expense (West Coast Photos being the latest) and some event organisers who see all media as an inconvenience and treat them accordingly. Again, there comes a point where folk think what's the point and use their time and money doing something more worthwhile. No easy fix, but I think closed roads / town centre ceremonies / school engagement etc are all part of the solution.
DelicaL400 said:
thepawbroon said:
I know we've all said it many times - the answer is for rallying to be much more in the public's consciousness as a "good thing". It has to bring substantial benefits to more than just the immediate participants. Rallies could become more like local festivals, putting on stuff for a wider audience than the hard core petrolhead.
No easy fix, but I think closed roads / town centre ceremonies / school engagement etc are all part of the solution.
I'd add to that effective promotion of the sport and events generally by MSUK and organisers engaging with those with the skills to help, be it writing or photographing or social media etc. Instead MSUK have a stupid accreditation scheme that has seen many just pack in as it's not worth the hassle and expense (West Coast Photos being the latest) and some event organisers who see all media as an inconvenience and treat them accordingly. Again, there comes a point where folk think what's the point and use their time and money doing something more worthwhile. No easy fix, but I think closed roads / town centre ceremonies / school engagement etc are all part of the solution.
Rallies which are proper 'events' should have happened years ago; involve the host town, have activities, set up a campsite, etc Make it a weekend event that's something to look forward to.
Just to give some perspective of rallying over here in Ireland.
I believe nearly all of our rallies the past year have been over subscribed, the past week the Stonethrowers rally had 160+ cars.
The entry for it was on the cheaper side, around 850+ euro for 9 stages.
Whereas the forestry rallies get I think around 80 cars, my understanding is a lot of it is down to the fact gravel rallies are just so hard on the car. It's expensive enough as is to run a rally, never mind the risk of crashing, but then to add the cost of replacing parts due to their much shortened life having been battered.
Though I'm very surprised regarding the strength of recent Irish rallies. Just before covid a lot of rallies were getting very poor entries. We're getting f
ked by insurance
I believe nearly all of our rallies the past year have been over subscribed, the past week the Stonethrowers rally had 160+ cars.
The entry for it was on the cheaper side, around 850+ euro for 9 stages.
Whereas the forestry rallies get I think around 80 cars, my understanding is a lot of it is down to the fact gravel rallies are just so hard on the car. It's expensive enough as is to run a rally, never mind the risk of crashing, but then to add the cost of replacing parts due to their much shortened life having been battered.
Though I'm very surprised regarding the strength of recent Irish rallies. Just before covid a lot of rallies were getting very poor entries. We're getting f
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