2022 Rallying Thread (WRC, ERC and national rally)
Discussion
WRC is on it's knees and looks like another classic event has been ruined, bloody sad to reflect on. Belgium , not Ypres because the entry was always full , was an adventure back along mid/late 80s ,entries fuel and hotel all paid for by the organizers , discounts on ferry crossings and even prize money , recces at full chat the night before the rally with spectators , and the whole town came into carnival atmosphere for the event .
I know , living in the past , but rallying is sterile now .
I know , living in the past , but rallying is sterile now .
This argument keeps rearing it’s ugly head.
Public liability insurance is killing rally. You can’t have speccies next the rally cars doing 100 mph.
You could maybe ban spectators and have the rally run to old school rules, but I doubt any one could afford to compete, the cost and time would be immense.
Current rally cars are awesome, and whilst I’d like a bit more mileage in a rally and maybe the abandonment of centralised servicing, and rally 2, reintroduce remote service and emergency service, that’s about as far as I’d want to take it.
Public liability insurance is killing rally. You can’t have speccies next the rally cars doing 100 mph.
You could maybe ban spectators and have the rally run to old school rules, but I doubt any one could afford to compete, the cost and time would be immense.
Current rally cars are awesome, and whilst I’d like a bit more mileage in a rally and maybe the abandonment of centralised servicing, and rally 2, reintroduce remote service and emergency service, that’s about as far as I’d want to take it.
I don't mind Rally2 because it lets you see more of the top class cars, and the powerstage bonus points give drivers motivation to rejoin (and to push for at least one stage). I think the powerstage points are a bit out of balance and worth too much relative to the overall rally points though, often resulting in drivers cruising the final morning to save tyre wear for the powerstage.
I'd like to see longer and less repeated stages - though I understand why they do it, to make logistics etc easier with their fixation on basing rallies around a central hub in or close to a larger centre.
I'd like to see longer and less repeated stages - though I understand why they do it, to make logistics etc easier with their fixation on basing rallies around a central hub in or close to a larger centre.
fttm said:
WRC is on it's knees and looks like another classic event has been ruined, bloody sad to reflect on. Belgium , not Ypres because the entry was always full , was an adventure back along mid/late 80s ,entries fuel and hotel all paid for by the organizers , discounts on ferry crossings and even prize money , recces at full chat the night before the rally with spectators , and the whole town came into carnival atmosphere for the event .
I know , living in the past , but rallying is sterile now .
A lot of that was funded by the cigarette money; a golden era. However, even recently, Ypres has been a 'must see' event; and I've already said, it doesn't need the WRC, it's fine on its own. Night stages are an important part of the event, but yet again, it has to fit into the WRC format so aren't included.I know , living in the past , but rallying is sterile now .
It's just so stale, every event is the same.....but they won't change it. It's not as if the WRC is a raging success....limping from one era to another with expensive cars that no new manufacturers have joined, or have even hinted may join.
The issue is one of risk, Red Bull do not want to take any risks, they are just like IMG with rallycross, they are ONLY 100% and SOLELY interested in two things.
Manufacturers as they wrongly think that is all fans care about and makes their series relevant, and the other thing is places to pay for hosting rallies, meaning a lot of rallies have disappeared from the schedule.
Back in the day you knew it pretty much off by heart, Monte, Sweden, Portugal, Safari, Acropolis, Corsica maybe NZ or Australia, Sanremo, Catalunya Finland, and RAC.
Rules have changed things for fans, hence why a Poland is dropped as they did not police it properly, yet to me that looked a hark back to the old days it looked amazing!
Manufacturers as they wrongly think that is all fans care about and makes their series relevant, and the other thing is places to pay for hosting rallies, meaning a lot of rallies have disappeared from the schedule.
Back in the day you knew it pretty much off by heart, Monte, Sweden, Portugal, Safari, Acropolis, Corsica maybe NZ or Australia, Sanremo, Catalunya Finland, and RAC.
Rules have changed things for fans, hence why a Poland is dropped as they did not police it properly, yet to me that looked a hark back to the old days it looked amazing!
LukeBrown66 said:
The issue is one of risk, Red Bull do not want to take any risks, they are just like IMG with rallycross, they are ONLY 100% and SOLELY interested in two things.
Manufacturers as they wrongly think that is all fans care about and makes their series relevant, and the other thing is places to pay for hosting rallies, meaning a lot of rallies have disappeared from the schedule.
Back in the day you knew it pretty much off by heart, Monte, Sweden, Portugal, Safari, Acropolis, Corsica maybe NZ or Australia, Sanremo, Catalunya Finland, and RAC.
Rules have changed things for fans, hence why a Poland is dropped as they did not police it properly, yet to me that looked a hark back to the old days it looked amazing!
if you want rallying to be banned then lets have more Poland style spectator management, and see what happens when a Rally 1 car, crashes into spectators killing 10 of them live on TV. Manufacturers as they wrongly think that is all fans care about and makes their series relevant, and the other thing is places to pay for hosting rallies, meaning a lot of rallies have disappeared from the schedule.
Back in the day you knew it pretty much off by heart, Monte, Sweden, Portugal, Safari, Acropolis, Corsica maybe NZ or Australia, Sanremo, Catalunya Finland, and RAC.
Rules have changed things for fans, hence why a Poland is dropped as they did not police it properly, yet to me that looked a hark back to the old days it looked amazing!
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
LukeBrown66 said:
The issue is one of risk, Red Bull do not want to take any risks, they are just like IMG with rallycross, they are ONLY 100% and SOLELY interested in two things.
Manufacturers as they wrongly think that is all fans care about and makes their series relevant, and the other thing is places to pay for hosting rallies, meaning a lot of rallies have disappeared from the schedule.
Back in the day you knew it pretty much off by heart, Monte, Sweden, Portugal, Safari, Acropolis, Corsica maybe NZ or Australia, Sanremo, Catalunya Finland, and RAC.
Rules have changed things for fans, hence why a Poland is dropped as they did not police it properly, yet to me that looked a hark back to the old days it looked amazing!
if you want rallying to be banned then lets have more Poland style spectator management, and see what happens when a Rally 1 car, crashes into spectators killing 10 of them live on TV. Manufacturers as they wrongly think that is all fans care about and makes their series relevant, and the other thing is places to pay for hosting rallies, meaning a lot of rallies have disappeared from the schedule.
Back in the day you knew it pretty much off by heart, Monte, Sweden, Portugal, Safari, Acropolis, Corsica maybe NZ or Australia, Sanremo, Catalunya Finland, and RAC.
Rules have changed things for fans, hence why a Poland is dropped as they did not police it properly, yet to me that looked a hark back to the old days it looked amazing!
If you look at some of the footage from Finland, it's pretty amazing we can still get away with having no separation between cars doing 180kmh on gravel and spectators. If the sport didn't already exist and you proposed that you'd be laughed out of town.
I saw fast stages in Poland, I saw occasional issues with fans, but I did not see the images like Portugal, Monte Catalunya in the past that caused the main issues.
If people want pens 200 metres away, then fine, but crowds will drop off a cliff, the same could be true in the TT where you can be sitting in a pub garden and get hit by a bike, it is your risk, but sadly these days the H&S lobby have come to the point where that is not an excuse, not because of anything other than insurance, the event cannot get insurance because they are scared that if something happens someone will sue. No other reason, there is no risk in anything allowed now, insurance has become the only law that mattes to events organisers all because of a freak accident in Scotland and some idiots ignoring rules a little while later
For me it is the end of rallying, and if that is the case and it becomes pens then frankly I hope it dies.
Belgium has always been a safe haven for rallying, but if even there it is becoming less interesting to watch then that is truly sad, I have footage of Ypres events from the 90's where entire towns are watching, day and night, it was truly fabulous.
Those days are long gone ,never to return, like me!!
If people want pens 200 metres away, then fine, but crowds will drop off a cliff, the same could be true in the TT where you can be sitting in a pub garden and get hit by a bike, it is your risk, but sadly these days the H&S lobby have come to the point where that is not an excuse, not because of anything other than insurance, the event cannot get insurance because they are scared that if something happens someone will sue. No other reason, there is no risk in anything allowed now, insurance has become the only law that mattes to events organisers all because of a freak accident in Scotland and some idiots ignoring rules a little while later
For me it is the end of rallying, and if that is the case and it becomes pens then frankly I hope it dies.
Belgium has always been a safe haven for rallying, but if even there it is becoming less interesting to watch then that is truly sad, I have footage of Ypres events from the 90's where entire towns are watching, day and night, it was truly fabulous.
Those days are long gone ,never to return, like me!!
LukeBrown66 said:
Belgium has always been a safe haven for rallying, but if even there it is becoming less interesting to watch then that is truly sad, I have footage of Ypres events from the 90's where entire towns are watching, day and night, it was truly fabulous.
Those days are long gone ,never to return, like me!!
Maybe not long gone, from my recent experience.........one example on this video:Those days are long gone ,never to return, like me!!
https://www.facebook.com/643156701/videos/39270044...
Ah, Mesen. Very tame compared to Nieukerke shakedown 
We probably won't go again if it's WRC, shame as I really like Ypres and having the Historic and BRC at the same time.
Prices for all stages pass at least double plus Shakedown was an extra 25€ I think?
M-sport really do look like the poor relations compared to Toyota and Hyundai in the service area....
Hyundai was drive in/out, Toyota drive in, reverse out, both semi-permanent with 'doors'....M-sport 4 inflatable open sided tents.
and before we got kicked out the service area, this made me smile.....you may need to zoom in a touch
other things we noticed out on stages, correct over every man and his dog recording on phones, very few air horns and waving/cheering......Freddie Loix comes past....not a murmur, how soon a legend is forgotten.
We probably won't go again if it's WRC, shame as I really like Ypres and having the Historic and BRC at the same time.
Prices for all stages pass at least double plus Shakedown was an extra 25€ I think?
M-sport really do look like the poor relations compared to Toyota and Hyundai in the service area....
Hyundai was drive in/out, Toyota drive in, reverse out, both semi-permanent with 'doors'....M-sport 4 inflatable open sided tents.
and before we got kicked out the service area, this made me smile.....you may need to zoom in a touch
other things we noticed out on stages, correct over every man and his dog recording on phones, very few air horns and waving/cheering......Freddie Loix comes past....not a murmur, how soon a legend is forgotten.
Well personally I really liked the rally and the coverage on WRC+, I watched every stage live. I would have loved if the stages were longer though, they were very short.
I don't agree with this yearning for the by gone days. The cars are fantastic and the drivers are fantastic, significantly better than Group B in my opinion. They are fire breathing monsters which sound fantastic and look great.
Watch this video and genuinely tell me it's boring or less exciting than previous years: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGK5vD7UfGk
The things that do need to improve on though are the rallies need to be longer, we need more pure tarmac events instead of just another bloody gravel rally and more cars. It would be great to have customer teams back. Add Mikkelsen, Sordo, Lindholm and Sunninen in top machinery every round and it starts to look really good.
In terms of M-sport, I think they have been out developed all ready by Toyota and Hyundai. Breen is over driving the car trying to make up the difference with no testing in a car which is still very new to him. The Monaco win was pure luck, Loeb in his back yard on his favourite event. Since then he did s
t in Portugal and Kenya so no need to get him back in the car. They need to actually spend the money and get testing done before the events and get rid of Fourmaux who seems to always crash. He should have brought the car home safely in 5th with some decent points but he binned it on the second last stage which is just unforgivable. They also need a second permant driver to back up Breen as they are just pissing in the wind currently
Give Breen time, tt's his first year in the car and he needs time to get used to it, he was able to beat Neuville and Tanak in equal machinery so he has the skill. Better than Lappi, Solberg, any of the French offerings, Mikkelsen or the current Loeb in my biased opinion.
I don't agree with this yearning for the by gone days. The cars are fantastic and the drivers are fantastic, significantly better than Group B in my opinion. They are fire breathing monsters which sound fantastic and look great.
Watch this video and genuinely tell me it's boring or less exciting than previous years: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGK5vD7UfGk
The things that do need to improve on though are the rallies need to be longer, we need more pure tarmac events instead of just another bloody gravel rally and more cars. It would be great to have customer teams back. Add Mikkelsen, Sordo, Lindholm and Sunninen in top machinery every round and it starts to look really good.
In terms of M-sport, I think they have been out developed all ready by Toyota and Hyundai. Breen is over driving the car trying to make up the difference with no testing in a car which is still very new to him. The Monaco win was pure luck, Loeb in his back yard on his favourite event. Since then he did s
t in Portugal and Kenya so no need to get him back in the car. They need to actually spend the money and get testing done before the events and get rid of Fourmaux who seems to always crash. He should have brought the car home safely in 5th with some decent points but he binned it on the second last stage which is just unforgivable. They also need a second permant driver to back up Breen as they are just pissing in the wind currentlyGive Breen time, tt's his first year in the car and he needs time to get used to it, he was able to beat Neuville and Tanak in equal machinery so he has the skill. Better than Lappi, Solberg, any of the French offerings, Mikkelsen or the current Loeb in my biased opinion.
Absolutely with you on Breen over driving , think he's well aware of that also judging by his media posts today .
In the wider topic , the spectacle just isn't there anymore . The cars are quick but boring to watch as it's just like they're on rails , stages way to short , and no night driving which is where the atmosphere is . Certainly don't hold GpB as the be all end all , although the 037s were spectacular at Ypres ,as also were the Escorts Mantas Nissans etc . Is there an Ypres historic event yet ? Would be great to see one run to the traditional format , would be there in a shot .
In the wider topic , the spectacle just isn't there anymore . The cars are quick but boring to watch as it's just like they're on rails , stages way to short , and no night driving which is where the atmosphere is . Certainly don't hold GpB as the be all end all , although the 037s were spectacular at Ypres ,as also were the Escorts Mantas Nissans etc . Is there an Ypres historic event yet ? Would be great to see one run to the traditional format , would be there in a shot .
confucuis said:
...we need more pure tarmac events instead of just another bloody gravel rally...
Then we can complain about just another bloody tarmac rally... 
This years calendar has 4 pure tarmac plus the icy tarmac Monte. And 6 gravel (3 rougher 3 smoother), 1 dirt (I don't think you can really call Kenya gravel), 1 snow.
So its not really that unbalanced. But a wider variation and more than 3 rounds outside Europe would be good.
Portugal and Sardegna always seem very similar, they could alternate those leaving a space for another tarmac round like Corsica or perhaps Ireland?
Could drop Estonia (its similar to Finland but not as good) for Australia to get another round out of Europe, if they ran Aus and NZ one after the other it would mitigate the shipping issue (unless a team wanted to send a wrecked car home for a rebuild I guess).
It would be interesting if they could get the support for a round in the USA or Canada, but probably unlikely.
Of course we know that WRC rounds are chosen more for financial/commercial reasons and less for what makes the best sport, but its fun to daydream about a better WRC calendar.
Edited by GravelBen on Tuesday 23 August 04:52
It always has been the same, there have always been far more gravel rallies, there only ever used to be maybe a dry Monte, Corsica and parts of Portugal and Sanremo.
thenm we sort of got asphalt Catalunya dn Sanremo thrown in too.
But I have no issue with it, dual surface is fine with me
thenm we sort of got asphalt Catalunya dn Sanremo thrown in too.
But I have no issue with it, dual surface is fine with me
https://www.rallit.fi/mm-rallin-sisapiirilainen-pa...
Google translate will be needed.
Pretty damning of the current situation at M-Sport.....
Google translate will be needed.
Pretty damning of the current situation at M-Sport.....
ArnageWRC said:
https://www.rallit.fi/mm-rallin-sisapiirilainen-pa...
Google translate will be needed.
Pretty damning of the current situation at M-Sport.....
I think he has a point. I was quite surprised at how vocal some of the criticism from the team has been about Breen and Formaux in the last couple of events. Yes, they've shunted but publicly berating them in interviews is not likely to help.Google translate will be needed.
Pretty damning of the current situation at M-Sport.....
Beatings will continue until morale improves!
Something for the enlightened to celebrate and the Luddites to highlight some minor aspect that isn't quite perfect / twin 40s on a MkII.
https://www.rallyinguk.info/post/tom-cave-to-compe...
https://www.rallyinguk.info/post/tom-cave-to-compe...
ArnageWRC said:
The people behind that event are to be praised; they've got Paddon, it's a round of the TER, and they've got an entry with a 'new technology' car. An event that seems to be going places.
They've also got room for 150 entrants but have only attracted 108. But I agree, they have ambitions. Sadly the combination of 2 years off due to Covid and a general cost of living crisis in UK has affected them.
I think Paddon comes with TER, he's their ambassador. I'm not sure how much the event pays to join TER, but it would be normal to pay some kind of fee. The TER does bring TV coverage I think, and has attracted a Swiss crew.
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