2022 Rallying Thread (WRC, ERC and national rally)
Discussion
LukeBrown66 said:
If he has any sense he takes it on he chin, takes a pay cut and goes to Ford, Malc would welcome him with open arms, and then you hope they can build a team round him, he basically did all his early career there, proved himself there with Ogier as a team mate, but we all know Malc has neither the money nor budget to pay for him!
He didn't really have the budget for Ogier, but as VW pulled out he was no doubt compensated by them to take him aswell as Red Bull for his two years, Tanak would surely be worth the punt, the car is clearly good enough to compete at the top level, but the driving talent is lacking
I can't help thinking that M Sport is badly managed at Rally level. Millener expects them not to damage the car but yet drive it hard enough to put it on the podium. He then seems to lose his sHe didn't really have the budget for Ogier, but as VW pulled out he was no doubt compensated by them to take him aswell as Red Bull for his two years, Tanak would surely be worth the punt, the car is clearly good enough to compete at the top level, but the driving talent is lacking
t when the cars get stacked. Breen is a good driver, and well capable of winning, but if you are being told to get a good result, go hard etc and then dont dare damage the thing its bound to be counterproductive.
As well as that the lads that are in the WRC sound like the walking equivalent of a root canel operation. No personality and in no way able to sell the sport ala McRae or Rossi in Motogp. Breen is about the best of them in so far as hes a nice guy and approachable. Greensmith too actually.
boholoblanka said:
I can't help thinking that M Sport is badly managed at Rally level. Millener expects them not to damage the car but yet drive it hard enough to put it on the podium. He then seems to lose his st when the cars get stacked.
Breen is a good driver, and well capable of winning, but if you are being told to get a good result, go hard etc and then dont dare damage the thing its bound to be counterproductive.
As well as that the lads that are in the WRC sound like the walking equivalent of a root canel operation. No personality and in no way able to sell the sport ala McRae or Rossi in Motogp. Breen is about the best of them in so far as hes a nice guy and approachable. Greensmith too actually.
you can't possibly be suggesting that Millener is like a Martin Whittaker of Mclaren kind of guy t when the cars get stacked. Breen is a good driver, and well capable of winning, but if you are being told to get a good result, go hard etc and then dont dare damage the thing its bound to be counterproductive.
As well as that the lads that are in the WRC sound like the walking equivalent of a root canel operation. No personality and in no way able to sell the sport ala McRae or Rossi in Motogp. Breen is about the best of them in so far as hes a nice guy and approachable. Greensmith too actually.
I have no issue with Millener saying this, I think he is perhaps not a team manager type guy, but he has a point with Breen, the guy is a bit like Meeke, he is quick enough but to be at that pace he takes more risk than say Ogier, Tanak or now Kalle or Elfyn, so he throws it at the trees more. Meeke was exactly the same, he had the pace to beat Loeb, Ogier, but he did not have the ability to run at that pace without consistently crashing, neither did Latvala who was similarly quick.
it is what separates the elite from the rest, and why they win routinely, Ogier was often lucky, go back over footage and you will see him getting into countless near terminal scrapes but he nearly always pulled it back. That is a special skill to be able to be utterly flat out but still remain calm and in control, for me Meeke and breen, Latvala and a few others are quick enough but not able to remain so calm as to not make errors.
it is what separates the elite from the rest, and why they win routinely, Ogier was often lucky, go back over footage and you will see him getting into countless near terminal scrapes but he nearly always pulled it back. That is a special skill to be able to be utterly flat out but still remain calm and in control, for me Meeke and breen, Latvala and a few others are quick enough but not able to remain so calm as to not make errors.
LukeBrown66 said:
I have no issue with Millener saying this, I think he is perhaps not a team manager type guy, but he has a point with Breen, the guy is a bit like Meeke, he is quick enough but to be at that pace he takes more risk than say Ogier, Tanak or now Kalle or Elfyn, so he throws it at the trees more. Meeke was exactly the same, he had the pace to beat Loeb, Ogier, but he did not have the ability to run at that pace without consistently crashing, neither did Latvala who was similarly quick.
it is what separates the elite from the rest, and why they win routinely, Ogier was often lucky, go back over footage and you will see him getting into countless near terminal scrapes but he nearly always pulled it back. That is a special skill to be able to be utterly flat out but still remain calm and in control, for me Meeke and breen, Latvala and a few others are quick enough but not able to remain so calm as to not make errors.
In which case he needs to be managed as the driver he is, not the driver they wish he was.it is what separates the elite from the rest, and why they win routinely, Ogier was often lucky, go back over footage and you will see him getting into countless near terminal scrapes but he nearly always pulled it back. That is a special skill to be able to be utterly flat out but still remain calm and in control, for me Meeke and breen, Latvala and a few others are quick enough but not able to remain so calm as to not make errors.
Everyone at Ford seem terrified of making a mistake, and that tension seems to make it a self fulfilling prophesy.
egomeister said:
Everyone at Ford seem terrified of making a mistake, and that tension seems to make it a self fulfilling prophesy.
Malcom may have been better at supporting young upcoming drivers when he was more hands-on with the WRC team himself, but its obvious that Millener just puts even more pressure on the drivers instead of supporting them to cope with the pressure.
Which is why there is too much pressure on him, he maybe feels or is told to lead the team and he is not that guy.
I never felt Hirvonen was a team leader either, bit like a Schwarz, Eriksson or Liatti, great drivers capable of wins but not going to build a team or lead them to titles.
I have no idea why Neiville is considered this guy at Hyundai, he really is not that guy. He maybe was a few years ago but I think Evans, Kalle, Tanak have now moved it on a touch
I never felt Hirvonen was a team leader either, bit like a Schwarz, Eriksson or Liatti, great drivers capable of wins but not going to build a team or lead them to titles.
I have no idea why Neiville is considered this guy at Hyundai, he really is not that guy. He maybe was a few years ago but I think Evans, Kalle, Tanak have now moved it on a touch
LukeBrown66 said:
Are we really sure Breen is top drawer though? That has to be the question.
I doubt it. good no.2 but same time they need to get out of his hair re the car and pranging it and whatever. This type of management stifles development. its shown in other industries as such. If Millener et al havent the cash to go rallying then they need to pull out and run a skoda type set up. they are overreaching, ford wont back them, and they cant generate sponsorship as theres no value in rallying for a sponsor. I think a bit opposite, if you employ a guy to lead a team and he is crashing a fair bit he clearly cannot handle the pressure, I am not a believer in calling out drivers in the media, I don't think it works, but Breen is clearly not up to it and I think it is refreshing to see a guy not being all PR and whatever and having a pop, I like it when footy managers do it and similarly here, Craig has the pace to do well, but you can't keep doing this, pressure comes with being a team leader, you either step up or go back to remember where he was!!
there are a lot of people involved, big money and this is not a good look
there are a lot of people involved, big money and this is not a good look
Remember, this is Breens first year in a brand new car, in a brand new team. It takes time to get used to it, add to this that he may be expected to push for wins but don't risk the car at the same time. Which is a terrible position to be in and could explain his mistakes.
Breen isn't known for crashing, this is something new this year.
I think what has been quite damaging to him, is that IMHO everyone is over estimating Loebs performances in it as well. There was a reason he chose to do Monte, he loves that rally, it's his favourite in his backyard + Hyundai were struggling with the new car and only won in the end when Ogier got a puncture.
He retired in Portugal and Greece and was 8th in Kenya, he and Loubet benefitted massively from good road position in those rallies, especially in Greece, but that was ignored for great headlines about them which resulted in a lot of negative online discussion about Breen.
I think it would be incredibly stupid to not give him the full second season, what they need is another top driver, Tanak/Neuville/Ogier/Evans/Kalle, to do a full season alongside Breen.
Besides those, Breen is better than anyone else out there ATM.
I'm biased towards him obviously as he is my fellow countryman but someone mentioned on here previously why certain Irish drivers never got a chance, for example Cronin. I think I can see why now online. The amount of negative comments from people about Breen and the demand to get rid of him in favour of unproved drivers like Fourmaux, Loubet, Solberg, Lindholm, Huttunen etc. Loads of comments like "you only win with a Finn" and things of that nature, just people being completely ignorant of any drivers besides ones from supposedly rallying countries...
Breen isn't known for crashing, this is something new this year.
I think what has been quite damaging to him, is that IMHO everyone is over estimating Loebs performances in it as well. There was a reason he chose to do Monte, he loves that rally, it's his favourite in his backyard + Hyundai were struggling with the new car and only won in the end when Ogier got a puncture.
He retired in Portugal and Greece and was 8th in Kenya, he and Loubet benefitted massively from good road position in those rallies, especially in Greece, but that was ignored for great headlines about them which resulted in a lot of negative online discussion about Breen.
I think it would be incredibly stupid to not give him the full second season, what they need is another top driver, Tanak/Neuville/Ogier/Evans/Kalle, to do a full season alongside Breen.
Besides those, Breen is better than anyone else out there ATM.
I'm biased towards him obviously as he is my fellow countryman but someone mentioned on here previously why certain Irish drivers never got a chance, for example Cronin. I think I can see why now online. The amount of negative comments from people about Breen and the demand to get rid of him in favour of unproved drivers like Fourmaux, Loubet, Solberg, Lindholm, Huttunen etc. Loads of comments like "you only win with a Finn" and things of that nature, just people being completely ignorant of any drivers besides ones from supposedly rallying countries...
So more importantly than all the wrc stuff, it's Mull rally week!
Been on the island since Friday unfortunately not competing. Weather is very changeable in typical Mull fashion yesterday it pissed it down most of the day and glorious sunshine today.
Shame some of the brc runners ain't back but Duffy is back in a mk2 so not all is lost.
Been on the island since Friday unfortunately not competing. Weather is very changeable in typical Mull fashion yesterday it pissed it down most of the day and glorious sunshine today.
Shame some of the brc runners ain't back but Duffy is back in a mk2 so not all is lost.
avenger286 said:
So more importantly than all the wrc stuff, it's Mull rally week!
Been on the island since Friday unfortunately not competing. Weather is very changeable in typical Mull fashion yesterday it pissed it down most of the day and glorious sunshine today.
Shame some of the brc runners ain't back but Duffy is back in a mk2 so not all is lost.
Should be a good one, I'm arriving tomorrow evening and co-driving Car 24.Been on the island since Friday unfortunately not competing. Weather is very changeable in typical Mull fashion yesterday it pissed it down most of the day and glorious sunshine today.
Shame some of the brc runners ain't back but Duffy is back in a mk2 so not all is lost.
Re: the weather - they have rearranged scrutineering times to avoid the marquee getting blown away on Friday morning!
thepawbroon said:
avenger286 said:
So more importantly than all the wrc stuff, it's Mull rally week!
Been on the island since Friday unfortunately not competing. Weather is very changeable in typical Mull fashion yesterday it pissed it down most of the day and glorious sunshine today.
Shame some of the brc runners ain't back but Duffy is back in a mk2 so not all is lost.
Should be a good one, I'm arriving tomorrow evening and co-driving Car 24.Been on the island since Friday unfortunately not competing. Weather is very changeable in typical Mull fashion yesterday it pissed it down most of the day and glorious sunshine today.
Shame some of the brc runners ain't back but Duffy is back in a mk2 so not all is lost.
Re: the weather - they have rearranged scrutineering times to avoid the marquee getting blown away on Friday morning!
Ranger 6 said:
thepawbroon said:
avenger286 said:
So more importantly than all the wrc stuff, it's Mull rally week!
Been on the island since Friday unfortunately not competing. Weather is very changeable in typical Mull fashion yesterday it pissed it down most of the day and glorious sunshine today.
Shame some of the brc runners ain't back but Duffy is back in a mk2 so not all is lost.
Should be a good one, I'm arriving tomorrow evening and co-driving Car 24.Been on the island since Friday unfortunately not competing. Weather is very changeable in typical Mull fashion yesterday it pissed it down most of the day and glorious sunshine today.
Shame some of the brc runners ain't back but Duffy is back in a mk2 so not all is lost.
Re: the weather - they have rearranged scrutineering times to avoid the marquee getting blown away on Friday morning!
avenger286 said:
So more importantly than all the wrc stuff, it's Mull rally week!
Been on the island since Friday unfortunately not competing. Weather is very changeable in typical Mull fashion yesterday it pissed it down most of the day and glorious sunshine today.
Shame some of the brc runners ain't back but Duffy is back in a mk2 so not all is lost.
More importantly than the Mull or WRC stuff, I had an enjoyable run out in my “dinosaur spec” Escort at 3 Sisters kart track on Sunday, in the Adgespeed rally, a round of the AWMMC Heart of England rally championship, amongst others.Been on the island since Friday unfortunately not competing. Weather is very changeable in typical Mull fashion yesterday it pissed it down most of the day and glorious sunshine today.
Shame some of the brc runners ain't back but Duffy is back in a mk2 so not all is lost.
It was great how much interest there was in a narrow bodied, Pinto powered, h-pattern ‘box equipped car?
“Not proper rallying” I hear. I don’t care it was a well organised and fun club level event (& even then it had a couple of R5s and a 6R4 entered!) with a good paddock atmosphere.
andy97 said:
More importantly than the Mull or WRC stuff, I had an enjoyable run out in my “dinosaur spec” Escort at 3 Sisters kart track on Sunday, in the Adgespeed rally, a round of the AWMMC Heart of England rally championship, amongst others.
It was great how much interest there was in a narrow bodied, Pinto powered, h-pattern ‘box equipped car?
“Not proper rallying” I hear. I don’t care it was a well organised and fun club level event (& even then it had a couple of R5s and a 6R4 entered!) with a good paddock atmosphere.
Sounds like a great eventIt was great how much interest there was in a narrow bodied, Pinto powered, h-pattern ‘box equipped car?
“Not proper rallying” I hear. I don’t care it was a well organised and fun club level event (& even then it had a couple of R5s and a 6R4 entered!) with a good paddock atmosphere.
It's things like this that the sport needs to keep the grass roots elements going. Shame we're losjingmore and more venues as each year passes.
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