2023 rallying thread (WRC, ERC, national and historics)
Discussion
Very difficult for a manufacturer to link performance/competition to a road car
https://www.asa.org.uk/type/broadcast/code_section...
https://www.asa.org.uk/type/broadcast/code_section...
Quiet weekend for Kalle. Hops over to Japan, jumps into a brand new drift car and goes and wins on his debut. Is there anything he can't drive?
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/rovanpera-wins-on-h...
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/rovanpera-wins-on-h...
The Jim Clark rally and the Reivers rally is taking place this weekend. A late finish for some last night as stage one was delayed for a
couple spectator issues (one medical) meaning stage two was over a hour late starting.
https://results.djames.org.uk/results/index.php?Ev...
couple spectator issues (one medical) meaning stage two was over a hour late starting.
https://results.djames.org.uk/results/index.php?Ev...
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/ogier-its-time-for-...
Yes, absolutely. but will we get the changes needed, and more manufacturers and more interest to the sport?
ArnageWRC said:
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/ogier-its-time-for-...
Yes, absolutely. but will we get the changes needed, and more manufacturers and more interest to the sport?
Sadly, I do feel that the likelihood is no - and that the sport as a global spectacle with manufacturer support and commercial sponsors will soon be a thing of the past.Yes, absolutely. but will we get the changes needed, and more manufacturers and more interest to the sport?
I feel that FIA/Promotor's decisions to:
1/ standardise the route format to focus on live TV coverage
2/ try to improve the image by bringing in faster cars (in 2017) and then complex/expensive cars (in 2021)
3/ allow petty decisions to affect rally results, e.g. no donuts
Have gradually eroded any possibility that the sport is going to go anywhere.
In fact, if it wasn't for Dirtfish, all we would get is some dull All-live action, a horrible WRC website and very little in the way of technology or human interest in the sport.
I remember growing up and reading MN / Autosport with a sense of wonder about crews driving all night through Kielder forest, or blasting across the Savannah past herds of giraffes, or slithering up and down Alpine hairpins between snowbanks..... I'm not sure many kids these days have anything vaguely similar to look to.....
I think we need to admit this - watching rallying on Live TV is just not very good. It needs a Barry Hinchcliffe of today to bring the stories to life via a magazine-type programme, or something.
I don't get the obsession with 'live'.
One of the best and most engaging motorsport series I have watched recently is the Porsche Road to Le Mans series featuring on Michael Fassbender. Sometimes the episodes are months behind the events themselves, which admittedly is a bit long but it's the story that counts. Trying to present live, or 'as live' is a waste of time with updates available at a click of finger.
Making it about the story of the event works better unless live coverage is easy (which rallying isn't and never was). Characters help, I was aware of Mr Fassbender but I don't think I have seen a single thing he has been in. It was the star names of Porsche & Le Mans that drew me in, but the development of him as a driver (we'd all like to be in his shoes) and the characters around him that kept me watching.
One of the best and most engaging motorsport series I have watched recently is the Porsche Road to Le Mans series featuring on Michael Fassbender. Sometimes the episodes are months behind the events themselves, which admittedly is a bit long but it's the story that counts. Trying to present live, or 'as live' is a waste of time with updates available at a click of finger.
Making it about the story of the event works better unless live coverage is easy (which rallying isn't and never was). Characters help, I was aware of Mr Fassbender but I don't think I have seen a single thing he has been in. It was the star names of Porsche & Le Mans that drew me in, but the development of him as a driver (we'd all like to be in his shoes) and the characters around him that kept me watching.
LastPoster said:
I don't get the obsession with 'live'.
SNAP!It usually works in F1, because of the race-long strategies, field of 20 cars and occasional "moments", plus now they have quick interviews with team bosses / technical staff during the race.
But, just watching one car at a time, it's rarely good.
It's amazing how trudging into the forests with your mates to watch some amateurs in home-built cars go by for 10 sec each is much much better than watching full-time pro drivers in factory cars on liveTV. Go figure!
I understand why they do the live coverage, but it's all a bit bland, and the interviews are all the same - and so are the answers. I think the old IRC coverage was the way to go; maybe 1 or 2 stages live, repeated in the afternoon, and then add analysis, discussion, technical points - and more coverage for R2 cars.
However, 'All Live' is their 'halo' product, and they won't change it. And the generic WRC format is similar. They keep doing the same thing and expect things to improve.......
However, 'All Live' is their 'halo' product, and they won't change it. And the generic WRC format is similar. They keep doing the same thing and expect things to improve.......
ArnageWRC said:
I understand why they do the live coverage, but it's all a bit bland, and the interviews are all the same - and so are the answers. I think the old IRC coverage was the way to go; maybe 1 or 2 stages live, repeated in the afternoon, and then add analysis, discussion, technical points - and more coverage for R2 cars.
However, 'All Live' is their 'halo' product, and they won't change it. And the generic WRC format is similar. They keep doing the same thing and expect things to improve.......
I wonder if the event scheduling is almost too slick - it's actually quite impressive how a morning look can be structured for coverage to flow from one stage to the next but it does result in pretty much the same show each event. The stage end interviews are pretty hit and miss. It's clear the drivers generally just want to get away (and sometimes with good reason if they have issues), but I think they could be encouraged to offer a bit more colour about how they found conditions or how they drove the stage. The WRC2 runners are often a lot more chatty.However, 'All Live' is their 'halo' product, and they won't change it. And the generic WRC format is similar. They keep doing the same thing and expect things to improve.......
One thing that would definitely be worth doing is moving the power stage around the event timetable. Sundays get boring as positions are often secure and everyone defaults to tyre saving mode. If they popped up mid morning on a Saturday, or first stage after lunch on a Friday it could mix things up and eliminate that Sunday conservation strategy.
The simple fact is it will never work as a tv package the way it is done right now. The ONLY time WRC was popular in this country was when Coin and Richard were running up front, there are tons of makes involved and the events were more stable.
It has been pushed around just about every tv channel in the country,m clearly well sold by Red Bull the parent company yet it never stays anywhere for long, though I think C4 or BT have had it for a while now.
It is a sport that only works live really,
It only ever worked in the UK because of two world class drivers, one of them insanely popular, and a make believe rivalry made up between them.
I do not know how to make it popular as a tv package, I think we expect too much quite honestly, just coz a few people on a forum think it should be amazing, does not mean it works for viewers.
My theory is to reduce the numbers of events, make them longer and more challenging.
We all know what the schedule SHOULD be.. Monte, Sweden, Portugal(on mixed), Safari, Acropolis, Corsica, Finland, Sanremo (on mixed, Catalunya RAC. But it is now a bidding war as most motorsport is.
I have long said R5+ should be the top class, R5 is hugely popular worldwide, needs to be a smaller stepping stone to the top class.
It has been pushed around just about every tv channel in the country,m clearly well sold by Red Bull the parent company yet it never stays anywhere for long, though I think C4 or BT have had it for a while now.
It is a sport that only works live really,
It only ever worked in the UK because of two world class drivers, one of them insanely popular, and a make believe rivalry made up between them.
I do not know how to make it popular as a tv package, I think we expect too much quite honestly, just coz a few people on a forum think it should be amazing, does not mean it works for viewers.
My theory is to reduce the numbers of events, make them longer and more challenging.
We all know what the schedule SHOULD be.. Monte, Sweden, Portugal(on mixed), Safari, Acropolis, Corsica, Finland, Sanremo (on mixed, Catalunya RAC. But it is now a bidding war as most motorsport is.
I have long said R5+ should be the top class, R5 is hugely popular worldwide, needs to be a smaller stepping stone to the top class.
LukeBrown66 said:
I have long said R5+ should be the top class, R5 is hugely popular worldwide, needs to be a smaller stepping stone to the top class.
We kind of had this with the S2000/WRC regs of about a decade ago, which never really took off. Perhaps it was the right idea but too soon.Rally2 is a great category, and I'd say spot on for the second level series or national championships. The big question is how we can get the top runners from there into Rally1 cars on a more consistent basis. In a lot of respects, hybrid is a costly dead end (who hears anything about it contributing to the show, unless its because its broken?), but I understand why they want it there for optics
egomeister said:
One thing that would definitely be worth doing is moving the power stage around the event timetable. Sundays get boring as positions are often secure and everyone defaults to tyre saving mode. If they popped up mid morning on a Saturday, or first stage after lunch on a Friday it could mix things up and eliminate that Sunday conservation strategy.
Until last year MTB Enduro had their Power stage (bonus points stage) equivalent the evening before the main action got underway. It could work for the WRC if they gave it a try - but they seem reluctant to drop/change their ideas.LukeBrown66 said:
The simple fact is it will never work as a tv package the way it is done right now. The ONLY time WRC was popular in this country was when Coin and Richard were running up front, there are tons of makes involved and the events were more stable.
Hmm, I'm not sure about that; it was pretty popular in the 70s/80s when the RAC Rally, and the BRC would attract massive crowds - and the latter would have entries with most of the top World stars. It is pointless comparing ANY kind of sports popularity in the 70's and 80;s to know sadly,.
Just about every sport had a bigger attendance back then, stock cars, speedway, athletics, lower league football, rugby, crickets, there are not many sports enjoying the same levels of fan attendance now as then.
Now you have to fight with gaming, festivals, tv and mountains of other stuff having billions a year pumped in to it to make it seem unmissable when in fact most of it is utterly futile rubbish!!
Just about every sport had a bigger attendance back then, stock cars, speedway, athletics, lower league football, rugby, crickets, there are not many sports enjoying the same levels of fan attendance now as then.
Now you have to fight with gaming, festivals, tv and mountains of other stuff having billions a year pumped in to it to make it seem unmissable when in fact most of it is utterly futile rubbish!!
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