RE: INEOS Grenadier officially unveiled
Discussion
yellow elan said:
Built by one of Britains richest men in France. Ied everybody up the garden path it was going to be British built . He is just a traitor in my book
He thought it was. Then he was offered a fully functional factory used to build Smarts to lower M.B.s carbon 'crimes'. He is a businessman.r
Lester H said:
yellow elan said:
Built by one of Britains richest men in France. Ied everybody up the garden path it was going to be British built . He is just a traitor in my book
He thought it was. Then he was offered a fully functional factory used to build Smarts to lower M.B.s carbon 'crimes'. He is a businessman.For others it's the fact that it isn't its own car but trying to copy something iconic as if a Chinese knockoff.
Some will feel duped by the fact that the owner was telling them to leave the EU and that Britain would be great again only to have jumped to a tax haven in a long planned fiscal exodus.
Some will just find him repellent and by association the things he is involved in.
Others don't really believe there is a viable market for new historic commercial vehicles.
Fundamentally, I think the division is entirely of his making as he promised a people's product that would be British through and through and affordable to the oppressed and then ploughed on to deliver another premium cost, German lifestyle toy for the very folk the original fans don't like.
I think it's an interesting project and as many others have said, it's always good to see a new vehicle, especially one that is so 100% not in keeping with the leap to 2035. . I think it'll be hard to find volume but regardless, it will always be a car that causes division because of the man behind it, his behaviour in launching the concept as a patriotic van for the people when clearly from the outset it was never going to be ( ie he is very clearly not stupid but knew exactly what to say to those who he deemed were) will forever dog the product itself. And it will always look like a knock off, which it never needed to do or be. By making it look like the old Defender it'll always have the whiff of old man tantrum and shiftiness to it. The hint of someone who'd be shouting 'women & children first' while putting on a dress and wig. Which is a great shame.
Andeh1 said:
Lotobear said:
Joscal said:
I hope it’s a success too, really cannot understand the bashing they get.
...it's because Jim Ratcliffe was in support of BrexitAs for the vehicle itself, it's a woefully ill conceived idea with absolutely no target market, no appropriate price point, no design direction, no engineering consideration and no awareness of what it takes to make a vehicle commercially successful. It's just a basket case of bad ideas and too much money.
It's a plus sized dacia duster with double the price tag, and half the intelligence.
Edited by Andeh1 on Tuesday 11th October 20:24
Lotobear said:
I think it pretty much is that to be fair. That or else just simply hatred of a very succesful and wealthy businessman. It's up to him what he decides to spaff his wealth on to be fair.
It's more that this has had a whiff of bulls
t about it from the outset. From the four blokes in the pub* schtick to British built update of an icon via £35k commercial vehicle that can be fixed in the bush.* This bit might be true, but now he's bought the pub I fully expect it to start serving craft ale at 6.5 for a half.
Bill said:
Lotobear said:
I think it pretty much is that to be fair. That or else just simply hatred of a very succesful and wealthy businessman. It's up to him what he decides to spaff his wealth on to be fair.
It's more that this has had a whiff of bullst about it from the outset. From the four blokes in the pub* schtick to British built update of an icon via £35k commercial vehicle that can be fixed in the bush.* This bit might be true, but now he's bought the pub I fully expect it to start serving craft ale at 6.5 for a half.
But regardless it's his money so he can bulls
t all he likes and fail if he wants. The thing I find odd though is, as was said earlier, this is exactly the sort of thing a site like PH should be celebrating (and probably would have been before it ceased to be a car enthusiast site and became more like Twitter)The Radford guy sort of overshadows the vehicle. Sometimes the owner of the company can either be a draw or a distraction. Elon Musk is the modern day Henry Ford.
As for the Grenadier itself 18 months delay for material shortage is a bit rough. One of the main focuses of this 4x4 was that it was a repairable in at the side of the Kunene River in Africa by the owner type of 4x4.
I know G-Wagen closed the order books in January which set the used market on fire. Is it because they are using the same type of electronics in the Grenadier? Who knows
As for the Grenadier itself 18 months delay for material shortage is a bit rough. One of the main focuses of this 4x4 was that it was a repairable in at the side of the Kunene River in Africa by the owner type of 4x4.
I know G-Wagen closed the order books in January which set the used market on fire. Is it because they are using the same type of electronics in the Grenadier? Who knows
I think DA nailed it above. As for the twice the price of a Duster try 4 times. I’ve a brand new Defender and a Duster. The Duster is at its price point perfect for its purpose. The Defender was when I ordered mine relatively keenly priced within its market place, and again perfect for its purpose. You pays your money etc etc…..
Lotobear said:
...that would be a bargain in London, there's a craft pub in lowly Penrith selling it at £7.50 a schooner!
But regardless it's his money so he can bullst all he likes and fail if he wants. The thing I find odd though is, as was said earlier, this is exactly the sort of thing a site like PH should be celebrating (and probably would have been before it ceased to be a car enthusiast site and became more like Twitter)
But regardless it's his money so he can bulls
t all he likes and fail if he wants. The thing I find odd though is, as was said earlier, this is exactly the sort of thing a site like PH should be celebrating (and probably would have been before it ceased to be a car enthusiast site and became more like Twitter)
Regarding the bold, of course you're right, he can. But he doesn't get a free pass and plenty will call it out.
There is plenty of interest here, but just like the various TVR rebirths and "new British sports car for 2p" type articles there are some questions. No one gets a free pass, and it's been like that as long as I've been here.
Bill said:
Lotobear said:
...that would be a bargain in London, there's a craft pub in lowly Penrith selling it at £7.50 a schooner!
But regardless it's his money so he can bullst all he likes and fail if he wants. The thing I find odd though is, as was said earlier, this is exactly the sort of thing a site like PH should be celebrating (and probably would have been before it ceased to be a car enthusiast site and became more like Twitter)
But regardless it's his money so he can bulls
t all he likes and fail if he wants. The thing I find odd though is, as was said earlier, this is exactly the sort of thing a site like PH should be celebrating (and probably would have been before it ceased to be a car enthusiast site and became more like Twitter)Regarding the bold, of course you're right, he can. But he doesn't get a free pass and plenty will call it out.
There is plenty of interest here, but just like the various TVR rebirths and "new British sports car for 2p" type articles there are some questions. No one gets a free pass, and it's been like that as long as I've been here.
....I do suspect that much of the negativity is rooted in his poliitics though, just a hunch that I have
sisu said:
Elon Musk is the modern day Henry Ford.
I'm sure Ford would be turning in his grave at that.While on the topic, there is a cracking program on BBC at the moment on the Ford-Ferguson story. Title is something a bit naff like 'Patricks Tractor Wars' but I would recommend it fully.
Lotobear said:
Bill said:
Lotobear said:
...that would be a bargain in London, there's a craft pub in lowly Penrith selling it at £7.50 a schooner!
But regardless it's his money so he can bullst all he likes and fail if he wants. The thing I find odd though is, as was said earlier, this is exactly the sort of thing a site like PH should be celebrating (and probably would have been before it ceased to be a car enthusiast site and became more like Twitter)
But regardless it's his money so he can bulls
t all he likes and fail if he wants. The thing I find odd though is, as was said earlier, this is exactly the sort of thing a site like PH should be celebrating (and probably would have been before it ceased to be a car enthusiast site and became more like Twitter)Regarding the bold, of course you're right, he can. But he doesn't get a free pass and plenty will call it out.
There is plenty of interest here, but just like the various TVR rebirths and "new British sports car for 2p" type articles there are some questions. No one gets a free pass, and it's been like that as long as I've been here.
....I do suspect that much of the negativity is rooted in his poliitics though, just a hunch that I have
Silvanus said:
Lotobear said:
Bill said:
Lotobear said:
...that would be a bargain in London, there's a craft pub in lowly Penrith selling it at £7.50 a schooner!
But regardless it's his money so he can bullst all he likes and fail if he wants. The thing I find odd though is, as was said earlier, this is exactly the sort of thing a site like PH should be celebrating (and probably would have been before it ceased to be a car enthusiast site and became more like Twitter)
But regardless it's his money so he can bulls
t all he likes and fail if he wants. The thing I find odd though is, as was said earlier, this is exactly the sort of thing a site like PH should be celebrating (and probably would have been before it ceased to be a car enthusiast site and became more like Twitter)Regarding the bold, of course you're right, he can. But he doesn't get a free pass and plenty will call it out.
There is plenty of interest here, but just like the various TVR rebirths and "new British sports car for 2p" type articles there are some questions. No one gets a free pass, and it's been like that as long as I've been here.
....I do suspect that much of the negativity is rooted in his poliitics though, just a hunch that I have
On the other hand folk seem more than content to buy a Volvo, Polestar or even a new Lotus without much comment on the human rights, USSR support, and other abuses meted out by China. It's just odd to me.
Lotobear said:
Silvanus said:
Lotobear said:
Bill said:
Lotobear said:
...that would be a bargain in London, there's a craft pub in lowly Penrith selling it at £7.50 a schooner!
But regardless it's his money so he can bullst all he likes and fail if he wants. The thing I find odd though is, as was said earlier, this is exactly the sort of thing a site like PH should be celebrating (and probably would have been before it ceased to be a car enthusiast site and became more like Twitter)
But regardless it's his money so he can bulls
t all he likes and fail if he wants. The thing I find odd though is, as was said earlier, this is exactly the sort of thing a site like PH should be celebrating (and probably would have been before it ceased to be a car enthusiast site and became more like Twitter)Regarding the bold, of course you're right, he can. But he doesn't get a free pass and plenty will call it out.
There is plenty of interest here, but just like the various TVR rebirths and "new British sports car for 2p" type articles there are some questions. No one gets a free pass, and it's been like that as long as I've been here.
....I do suspect that much of the negativity is rooted in his poliitics though, just a hunch that I have
On the other hand folk seem more than content to buy a Volvo, Polestar or even a new Lotus without much comment on the human rights, USSR support, and other abuses meted out by China. It's just odd to me.
Silvanus said:
Lotobear said:
Silvanus said:
Lotobear said:
Bill said:
Lotobear said:
...that would be a bargain in London, there's a craft pub in lowly Penrith selling it at £7.50 a schooner!
But regardless it's his money so he can bullst all he likes and fail if he wants. The thing I find odd though is, as was said earlier, this is exactly the sort of thing a site like PH should be celebrating (and probably would have been before it ceased to be a car enthusiast site and became more like Twitter)
But regardless it's his money so he can bulls
t all he likes and fail if he wants. The thing I find odd though is, as was said earlier, this is exactly the sort of thing a site like PH should be celebrating (and probably would have been before it ceased to be a car enthusiast site and became more like Twitter)Regarding the bold, of course you're right, he can. But he doesn't get a free pass and plenty will call it out.
There is plenty of interest here, but just like the various TVR rebirths and "new British sports car for 2p" type articles there are some questions. No one gets a free pass, and it's been like that as long as I've been here.
....I do suspect that much of the negativity is rooted in his poliitics though, just a hunch that I have
On the other hand folk seem more than content to buy a Volvo, Polestar or even a new Lotus without much comment on the human rights, USSR support, and other abuses meted out by China. It's just odd to me.
Silvanus said:
If you find it odd don't get involved in that side of the discussion. China's rise in the automotive world has been and interesting one, its the none Chinese owned companies that rely on Chinese componentsthat are more worrying than the companies that don't attempt to hide their coalitions. I find it perfectly normal to look at the bigger picture rather than walk around with blinkers on, to try and separate and isolate the discussion doesn't help much. Maybe as you referred to it as the USSR, you might be a bit behind with politics
In that case, why aren't we shunning the VW Beetle or have we forgotten about Hitler?IMO - Last time I looked, Pistonheads is primarally a site for motoring enthusiasts... There are plenty of other corners of the interweb to discuss politics. By all means mention stuff in passing but I'd prefer to not see too much of it here.
My 2p
M
camel_landy said:
Silvanus said:
If you find it odd don't get involved in that side of the discussion. China's rise in the automotive world has been and interesting one, its the none Chinese owned companies that rely on Chinese componentsthat are more worrying than the companies that don't attempt to hide their coalitions. I find it perfectly normal to look at the bigger picture rather than walk around with blinkers on, to try and separate and isolate the discussion doesn't help much. Maybe as you referred to it as the USSR, you might be a bit behind with politics
In that case, why aren't we shunning the VW Beetle or have we forgotten about Hitler?IMO - Last time I looked, Pistonheads is primarally a site for motoring enthusiasts... There are plenty of other corners of the interweb to discuss politics. By all means mention stuff in passing but I'd prefer to not see too much of it here.
My 2p
M
Silvanus said:
Not saying we can't discuss cars, but a car like the Ineos is difficult to separate from the man, he's proven to be divisive character. As mentioned above if you are not keen on the political side of the car, skip by, and read the tech/design bit, not difficult.
But is the Grenadier story any less palatable than Indians taking millions in Government subsidies to prop up their ailing business, and then moving the Defender production from Solihull to Slovakia?Gassing Station | INEOS | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff