RE: INEOS Grenadier officially unveiled

[DonkeyApple]

Indeed but I can't quite believe that they e done all of this work just to sell a few expensive lifestyle toys. They must be underpinning retail sales with a bulk of commercial sales and in that sector it's the NGOs that aren't that price sensitive compared to industries that have shareholder to answer to?

[soxboy]

I wonder if building it in France helps with making it an EU product, thus getting preferential treatment when being part of an EU aid programme for the old colonies?

[sisu]

soxboy said:

I wonder if building it in France helps with making it an EU product, thus getting preferential treatment when being part of an EU aid programme for the old colonies?

French 4x4s?

[Mikebentley]

sisu said:

soxboy said:

I wonder if building it in France helps with making it an EU product, thus getting preferential treatment when being part of an EU aid programme for the old colonies?

French 4x4s?

Maybe he could stick a French flag on it? Celebrate its heritage.

[DonkeyApple]

Mikebentley said:

Maybe he could stick a French flag on it? Celebrate its heritage.

Would not washing it be suffice?

[Mikebentley]

Do the French actually wash cars?
Saw an advert on TV last night for Ineos hand wash and hand gel. Bit late to the party on that one too.

[dhutch]

Andeh1 said:

Having spent time in Africa, you'll find they rarely stray from Toyota & whatever has a robust parts network. Even the old Land Rover's rarely get much air time due to the parts cost.

Yeah. This is a huge aspect of the wider picture.

I worked with JCB in the first Telihandler to be launched into the Indian domestic market, and one of the key aspects was ensuring as much parts commonality with the existing Backhoe loader products, especially for any consumables such as air filters etc, due to the expansive parts and dealer network.

[Castellet]

LimaDelta said:

All I want is a LWB 5-door Suzuki Jiimny. Would beat the others hands-down as a sports-utility in the real sense of the words. Probably half the price too.

5dr LWB EV Suzuki Jimny for under £40k - surely ?

[jason61c]

have they had a massive price rise? I was thinking about being trigger happy on a one of the £60k editions, however now its showing £70k!?

[jeremy996]

jason61c said:

have they had a massive price rise? I was thinking about being trigger happy on a one of the £60k editions, however now its showing £70k!?

Yes, on all orders after 09/11/2022, about 12% in the UK.

(Existing order holders were sent an e-mail, telling us we would get it at the original price).

Back when I first reserved one, the delivery date was anticipated to be September 2022; the best estimate I have now is Feb/March 2023.

[eliot]

Indeed - existing orders had the original price honoured.

[Essex V6]

Unfortunately, it comes from a man who, after championing Brexit, decided to produce it overseas - hyprocisy at is finest....

[Pommy]

Essex V6 said:

Unfortunately, it comes from a man who, after championing Brexit, decided to produce it overseas - hyprocisy at is finest....

You have an Opel and the founder of Opel was a Nazi SS contributer - where do you draw the line at indignation?

All large car groups have some form of distasteful history or are built on the back of questionable human decisions.

Edited by Pommy on Monday 21st November 03:14

[wisbech]

Andeh1 said:

DonkeyApple said:

Mikebentley said:

I was thinking more along the lines of Africa, India etc but suspect it is too costly a proposition even there. I could see the Jimny selling there though as it’s cheap.

As you alluded to earlier, the key lies in using in poor countries but paying with other peoples' money. The sheer waste by countless NGOs and all their procurement teams swanning around European tax havens does suggest a market.

Having spent time in Africa, you'll find they rarely stray from Toyota & whatever has a robust parts network. Even the old Land Rover's rarely get much air time due to the parts cost.

Ditto Indonesia. It's Toyota/ Mitsubishi all the way in remote regions. And Landcruisers for the rich urban posers. A Mitsubishi 4WD dual cab will have 90-95% of the capability of the INEOS for half the cost, and 159 dealers.

Re Australia - this is from one of the online car sites:

"With no autonomous emergency braking, lane-keeping assistance, adaptive cruise control, blind-spot monitoring or any other advanced safety aids, a five-star ANCAP safety rating for the new off-roader will be unlikely – making it off-limits to fleet buyers and not allowed on mining sites.

As reported previously, Ineos is understood to be hoping its low sales volumes will see it avoid the scrutiny of Australian NCAP safety authorities"

Basically, they will sell it as 'commercial' to avoid crash testing, sell it to 'lifestyle' offroaders, and maybe a few farmers who are annoyed by the wait times for the Landcruiser 70 (now taking orders for 2024...)

(just to add, Toyota have spent the money to make the 1984! design of the 70 series 5 star compliant, though they also reclassified it as commercial to side step some of the regulations that it couldn't meet)

Edited by wisbech on Monday 21st November 02:08

Edited by wisbech on Monday 21st November 02:14

[wisbech]

DonkeyApple said:

Indeed but I can't quite believe that they e done all of this work just to sell a few expensive lifestyle toys. They must be underpinning retail sales with a bulk of commercial sales and in that sector it's the NGOs that aren't that price sensitive compared to industries that have shareholder to answer to?

I believe they certainly planned to sell a lot into commercial/ NGOs, without realising that the product is more the support & aftersales than the actual vehicle in those markets. 95% of capability 98% of the time is better than 100% capability 95% of the time.

The Bombardier C Series (now Airbus A220) is similar. Fantastic aircraft, no one bought it because Bombardier just didn't have the ability to convince airlines they could support it properly over the next 20-30 years. Now Airbus have bought it - going gangbusters.

Maybe INEOS will end up selling out to someone with the network, if it really is an amazing vehicle

[b0rk]

wisbech said:

Maybe INEOS will end up selling out to someone with the network, if it really is an amazing vehicle

But who has the network in place and would be interested that couldn’t also develop an alternative themselves.?

Airbus in the C series case of course acquired the programme for an absolute steal vs the amount Bombardier had spent on development, wasn’t it somewhat less than $1bn to Airbus vs $6bn in costs to Bombardier.

Unless the wider INEOS business takes an absolute caning for some reason I can’t see them needing to shift it as a distressed sale with that level of write down. Walking away after a few years if it flops is IMHO the most likely outcome.

[eliot]

wisbech said:

Re Australia - this is from one of the online car sites:

"With no autonomous emergency braking, lane-keeping assistance, adaptive cruise control, blind-spot monitoring or any other advanced safety aids, a five-star ANCAP safety rating for the new off-roader will be unlikely – making it off-limits to fleet buyers and not allowed on mining sites.

Not sure I could give a monkeys that none of that crap is present - less to go wrong.

[Bill]

It's got a BMW drivetrain so they're the only people who will be in any way interested.


And it's not ugly enough for them!

[wisbech]

eliot said:

Not sure I could give a monkeys that none of that crap is present - less to go wrong.

True - but if you are an Aussie tradie, it limits the use of the vehicle. Why not get a Landcruiser 70, which is compliant, has amazing resale value, and a V8? (well, apart from the fact that they are sold out until 2024...)

https://www.toyota.com.au/landcruiser-70

[jason61c]

jeremy996 said:

jason61c said:

have they had a massive price rise? I was thinking about being trigger happy on a one of the £60k editions, however now its showing £70k!?

Yes, on all orders after 09/11/2022, about 12% in the UK.

(Existing order holders were sent an e-mail, telling us we would get it at the original price).

Back when I first reserved one, the delivery date was anticipated to be September 2022; the best estimate I have now is Feb/March 2023.

Bugger. Thats me out then. I can't see it as a £70k+ car with a few OTR costs.

I'll be in the new landcruiser or a 6 year old G350d for £50k.