RE: INEOS Grenadier officially unveiled
Discussion
So I was driving to see a client today and went over a country B road. I’m not talking about Scottish Highlands style road, I was only a few miles from a motorway. Anyway as I splashed through puddle after puddle in a small saloon style EV and they started to take over the road (the puddles) I started to think about this Grenadier again. I’m not a utility worker or NGO but actually having more wading depth than a saloon has its advantages. And that’s in July!!! I think there is a fair market for the I’ll never use this vehicle to its potential but I won’t get stuck or flood the car either brigade.
My other thought was image - the Grenadier (at least by looking like one) sums up the LRs of old ie African plains, UK mountain rescue. It almost gets the benefit of the “goodwill” for all its a new vehicle from a new company - its like getting most of the heritage for free. It’s unfair to JLR I know but whenever i think of that brand I think electrical problem and tow truck. I wonder whether Ineos are basically grabbing the happy memories of JLR of old but without the baggage of JLR at its worst (truth or not)
My other thought was image - the Grenadier (at least by looking like one) sums up the LRs of old ie African plains, UK mountain rescue. It almost gets the benefit of the “goodwill” for all its a new vehicle from a new company - its like getting most of the heritage for free. It’s unfair to JLR I know but whenever i think of that brand I think electrical problem and tow truck. I wonder whether Ineos are basically grabbing the happy memories of JLR of old but without the baggage of JLR at its worst (truth or not)
I was wondering how Ineos would meet the EU fleet average emissions target by using some out moded BMW engines ( good though they are). but as they are definitely going to sell less than 300k cars in Europe they have much less stringent rules to adhere to.
I can see the UN getting into these as replacements for their Land Cruisers.
Also how are these cars going to be serviced? The obvious answer is via the BMW network as the Genadier is powered by BMW engines, however BMW UK franchising will not allow that.
Another option is to try and engage with smaller dealers groups to see if they will take on the franchise ( for sales and service) but that's old hat although can assist with offloading production.
I actually think there is a way to be innovative with this.I'd potentially look at IMT ( independent) BMW specialists to become service agents for the car, so long as franchising costs are low. The IMT vibe probably suits the utlitarian image of the Grenadier, by having a slightly more personal touch and not hiding behind large steel and glass edifices. The IMT's could subscribe to warranty / technical systems on a monthly basis, use their standard diagnostic tool and buy parts direct from Ineos. Finally they could also complete order fulfilment for new cars, Ineos pay them £500 to pdi and deliver/customer collect, where a direct delivery can't be organised from the factory via the internet.
I can see the UN getting into these as replacements for their Land Cruisers.
Also how are these cars going to be serviced? The obvious answer is via the BMW network as the Genadier is powered by BMW engines, however BMW UK franchising will not allow that.
Another option is to try and engage with smaller dealers groups to see if they will take on the franchise ( for sales and service) but that's old hat although can assist with offloading production.
I actually think there is a way to be innovative with this.I'd potentially look at IMT ( independent) BMW specialists to become service agents for the car, so long as franchising costs are low. The IMT vibe probably suits the utlitarian image of the Grenadier, by having a slightly more personal touch and not hiding behind large steel and glass edifices. The IMT's could subscribe to warranty / technical systems on a monthly basis, use their standard diagnostic tool and buy parts direct from Ineos. Finally they could also complete order fulfilment for new cars, Ineos pay them £500 to pdi and deliver/customer collect, where a direct delivery can't be organised from the factory via the internet.
Leithen said:
I wonder if a centralised service operation with a fleet of delivery vehicles (Grenadier towing a trailer?) might be more cost efficient than a dealer network.
Not a chance. It's not scalable for a starter, and the cost to drag a broken car across the country would make the overall servicing cost excessive.You could maybe use a company like Mondial recovery to send a technician out to do routine service work, some diagnostic work, but that would have it's limits and engine replacements can't really be done on the customers drive.
travisc said:
So I was driving to see a client today and went over a country B road. I’m not talking about Scottish Highlands style road, I was only a few miles from a motorway. Anyway as I splashed through puddle after puddle in a small saloon style EV and they started to take over the road (the puddles) I started to think about this Grenadier again. I’m not a utility worker or NGO but actually having more wading depth than a saloon has its advantages. And that’s in July!!! I think there is a fair market for the I’ll never use this vehicle to its potential but I won’t get stuck or flood the car either brigade. not)
A standard Dacia Duster will wade enough for most scenarios and is good on loose surfaces. A heavier off-roader will cope with deeper/faster flowing floods, but if you are someone who doesn't need that capability for 364.5 days of the year, then why bother? Today the FT reports on Ineos and the stylings of Sir Jim.
The rise of Jim Ratcliffe as Ineos expands from smokestacks to cars
. . . "In a field where another prominent British business, Dyson, has failed, Ineos intends to become a fully-fledged carmaker with a suite of models." (emphasis mine)
. . . "He says his boss eschews corporate blueprints and '10-year strategic plans' and sums up Sir Jim’s approach in three words: grit, rigour and humour."
To view this article, I suggest googling text above. Then click on the FT link on the search results page.
More about that article in the FT (see above):
There are the usual reader comments which appear beneath the article. A good number of these are interesting / thoughtful / and so on.
One reads in part:
"If this was a British Rivian I’d be all over it. Instead, it shows Ratcliffe’s true colours. It’s a shame."
I have to say that I do understand what this reader is saying about the opportunity to make the new product more about tomorrow than today. Or yesterday.
This doesn't mean that I don't like the Grenadier. Just that opportunity brings risk and must be managed accordingly.
MC Bodge said:
A standard Dacia Duster will wade enough for most scenarios and is good on loose surfaces. A heavier off-roader will cope with deeper/faster flowing floods, but if you are someone who doesn't need that capability for 364.5 days of the year, then why bother?
It's not about water... Even a small amount of flowing water can 'properly' ruin your weekend!!Where this has the potential is with the loose surfaces, unmetalled roads, building sites, rough tracks, etc... Despite the state of our roads currently, we're very spoilt here in the UK. There's still a lot of places around the globe where tarmac & sealed surfaces are limited to the city centres.
But as always, the devil is in the detail.
M
camel_landy said:
MC Bodge said:
A standard Dacia Duster will wade enough for most scenarios and is good on loose surfaces. A heavier off-roader will cope with deeper/faster flowing floods, but if you are someone who doesn't need that capability for 364.5 days of the year, then why bother?
It's not about water... Even a small amount of flowing water can 'properly' ruin your weekend!!Where this has the potential is with the loose surfaces, unmetalled roads, building sites, rough tracks, etc... Despite the state of our roads currently, we're very spoilt here in the UK. There's still a lot of places around the globe where tarmac & sealed surfaces are limited to the city centres.
But as always, the devil is in the detail.
M
I rented a Duster in Iceland, where tarmac is in short supply. It was surprisingly good on the F Roads, including crossing rivers.
d who is the spitting image.
300bhp/ton said:
braddo said:
I did not know there was such a thing as a petrol Disco 4!
V8 was standard engine in the D4 for ROW. Not sure but might be a few early examples in the UK. It was never released in the UK but someone popped up here a few weeks back asking questions about them. Can't remember if they were in the UK but IIRC the car originated from SA.
M
300bhp/ton said:
Do you have a dot gov link showing the difference between an agricultural tractor and an agricultural vehicle. Thanks.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/agricultural-vehicle-licences-and-fuel#type-approval-and-exemptions-for-tractors-and-goods-vehiclesThere you go, agricultural vehicle is anything that is a vehicle that can be taxed for use on a farm, telehandler, wheeled digger, combine being easy examples.
Tractor is different, licensing is different too, tractors can be driven on the public road at 16 with k class license I think it is, agricultural vehicles can’t.
Unimog is most definitely a tractor and actually falls under the category of “super fast tractor” which means it can legally travel on a public road upto 40mph as it has full suspension And all wheels are braked.
The rules on tractors and what you are allowed to do with them is very vague and grey and says as long as you carry and implement or article associated with farming forestry or agriculture ( for example a winch or even a shovel) with it you can go anywhere you want with it.
fatbutt said:
A South African friend of mine is saying that this is going down very well with his South African and Australian mates on the message boards. He's a defender owner so is keen to get one too.
I think they've nailed it (at this stage).
I think they'll sell a few, but they need to convince the mining/farming community to get anywhere near the sales volumes they need.I think they've nailed it (at this stage).
And that's a hard task.
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