RE: Official: 2022 INEOS Grenadier priced from £49k
Discussion
DonkeyApple said:
Haven't low volume manufacturers found it easier as they aren't trying to negotiate supplies in the millions and their end products don't tend to need to be hugely price competitive like the mass producers? And if they have any sense they'd have been accumulating inventory well in advance?
er, no.There arent' any parts, so you have to wait for the lines to restart, and when you do, because you are only spending a small amount of money with each supplier, you are right at the back of the queue! I have clients with more than 4 redesigns of systems to try to engineer out the least available parts, but they are now, even after all that effort and cost, facing 16 month lead times!
cidered77 said:
Twisted take a car that already exists, and pimp it at low volume and presumably decent margins.
Rather different to scaling an operation to build and keep running 25k cars of a brand new design.
So the market is there, but cannot see how that particular market covers all those costs.....
As I said Twisted could do well pimping the new Grenadier for the OLLI brigade!Rather different to scaling an operation to build and keep running 25k cars of a brand new design.
So the market is there, but cannot see how that particular market covers all those costs.....
300bhp/ton said:
So not a £30k Tdi then....
Also willing to bet it wasn't' £30k. You can't even buy a good spec Ranger for that these days. Not too mention the 'vision' would have been a good number of years ago and the world and prices have moved on. Pretty much all cars are more money than they were previously.
Autocar interview with Tom Crotty at INEOS August 2019 - 'Ineos is targeting sales of around 25,000 units per year. The company has previously outlined its vision for the 4x4 to be sold globally but is particularly targeting the US, sub-Saharan Africa and Europe. Prices are set to stick closely to those of the original Defender, which was priced from £25,000'. Also willing to bet it wasn't' £30k. You can't even buy a good spec Ranger for that these days. Not too mention the 'vision' would have been a good number of years ago and the world and prices have moved on. Pretty much all cars are more money than they were previously.
DonkeyApple said:
Well, looks like Jim is making a bid for it to be the real Chelsea tractor!!
He's just lobbed a bid in for Abramovich's club.
Given Ineos is the kiss of death for most sports teams (Americas Cup, Mercedes F1, Lausanne FC, Team Sky cycling) relegation beckons for Chelsea. He's just lobbed a bid in for Abramovich's club.
Edited by ImFeelingSaucy on Friday 29th April 17:30
Tomanybikes said:
cidered77 said:
Twisted take a car that already exists, and pimp it at low volume and presumably decent margins.
Rather different to scaling an operation to build and keep running 25k cars of a brand new design.
So the market is there, but cannot see how that particular market covers all those costs.....
As I said Twisted could do well pimping the new Grenadier for the OLLI brigade!Rather different to scaling an operation to build and keep running 25k cars of a brand new design.
So the market is there, but cannot see how that particular market covers all those costs.....
Wab1974uk said:
fantheman80 said:
Absolute state of that centre console, looks like a bad prop off Red Dwarf...
It was designed so you can still use everything while wearing thick gloves. Because some parts of the world are a bit colder than the UK.Most new cars seem to be out of my price range nowadays. Though I’m on a decent wage it doesn’t seem to be subject to the same manner of inflation as pretty much everything else. Due to this curious discrepancy I’m not sure I’m qualified to pass comment as I’m not a customer for increasing numbers of the latest models. Funny old game.
Max_Torque said:
DonkeyApple said:
Haven't low volume manufacturers found it easier as they aren't trying to negotiate supplies in the millions and their end products don't tend to need to be hugely price competitive like the mass producers? And if they have any sense they'd have been accumulating inventory well in advance?
er, no.There arent' any parts, so you have to wait for the lines to restart, and when you do, because you are only spending a small amount of money with each supplier, you are right at the back of the queue! I have clients with more than 4 redesigns of systems to try to engineer out the least available parts, but they are now, even after all that effort and cost, facing 16 month lead times!
Wonder what depreciation will be like…
It had better be niggle free out of the box as you don’t want the internet to be filled with customers complaining about faults and let’s face it, you can do all the testing in the world but nothing replicates real world testing with real life customers.
It had better be niggle free out of the box as you don’t want the internet to be filled with customers complaining about faults and let’s face it, you can do all the testing in the world but nothing replicates real world testing with real life customers.
ImFeelingSaucy said:
DonkeyApple said:
Well, looks like Jim is making a bid for it to be the real Chelsea tractor!!
He's just lobbed a bid in for Abramovich's club.
Given Ineos is the kiss of death for most sports teams (Americas Cup, Mercedes F1, Lausanne FC, Team Sky cycling) relegation beckons for Chelsea. He's just lobbed a bid in for Abramovich's club.
Edited by ImFeelingSaucy on Friday 29th April 17:30
DonkeyApple said:
Max_Torque said:
DonkeyApple said:
Haven't low volume manufacturers found it easier as they aren't trying to negotiate supplies in the millions and their end products don't tend to need to be hugely price competitive like the mass producers? And if they have any sense they'd have been accumulating inventory well in advance?
er, no.There arent' any parts, so you have to wait for the lines to restart, and when you do, because you are only spending a small amount of money with each supplier, you are right at the back of the queue! I have clients with more than 4 redesigns of systems to try to engineer out the least available parts, but they are now, even after all that effort and cost, facing 16 month lead times!
AmyRichardson said:
BOR said:
To be fair, it should be called the INEOS Foreign Legion.
Grenade and grenadier, both French loan-words. Sometimes irony is coincidental.JOB2.5-16 said:
Fuel consumption has featured heavily as a topic of conversation on this thread. A V6 Discovery 5 will average 26mpg, my old L322 did 22mpg, a G350d will do mid 20s. If you want a 4x4 with efficiency, buy a Bentayga V8 Diesel. That thing will do a real world 42mpg on a motorway run! Not helpful consumer advice, I realise, but pertinent for the sake of comparison. I really don't see a real world 26mpg mixed as bad for a car of this weight, which is probably going to be very low geared and never going to be doing 30k motorway miles a year. What does niggle me is the CO2 figure, and the effect that will have on the vehicle probably being emitted from LEZ compliance before it reaches dotage. That is also my only resale value worry too.
LEZ is about air quality, NOx emissions often being the limiting factor, so I'd be surprised if it gets disqualified on the basis of high CO2 emissions which are associated with climate change, not air quality. However, as per Max_Torque's post, the higher-than-its-competitors CO2 emissions should mean (given that the carbon atoms only come from the fuel) that it will have worse fuel consumption than them, assuming the tests relate to reality:Max_Torque said:
And finally, the poster saying "i don't care about fuel economy but i care about Co2" sorry, they are the same thing! The Co2 emitted when burning a mass of fuel is fixed by the chemistry. For diesel, every litre of fuel you burn, using oxygen from the air, will release around 2.62kg of Co2. You can't change that. So if a car has a large fuel consumption, then it also has a large Co2 emission.
trevalvole said:
JOB2.5-16 said:
Fuel consumption has featured heavily as a topic of conversation on this thread. A V6 Discovery 5 will average 26mpg, my old L322 did 22mpg, a G350d will do mid 20s. If you want a 4x4 with efficiency, buy a Bentayga V8 Diesel. That thing will do a real world 42mpg on a motorway run! Not helpful consumer advice, I realise, but pertinent for the sake of comparison. I really don't see a real world 26mpg mixed as bad for a car of this weight, which is probably going to be very low geared and never going to be doing 30k motorway miles a year. What does niggle me is the CO2 figure, and the effect that will have on the vehicle probably being emitted from LEZ compliance before it reaches dotage. That is also my only resale value worry too.
LEZ is about air quality, NOx emissions often being the limiting factor, so I'd be surprised if it gets disqualified on the basis of high CO2 emissions which are associated with climate change, not air quality. However, as per Max_Torque's post, the higher-than-its-competitors CO2 emissions should mean (given that the carbon atoms only come from the fuel) that it will have worse fuel consumption than them, assuming the tests relate to reality:Max_Torque said:
And finally, the poster saying "i don't care about fuel economy but i care about Co2" sorry, they are the same thing! The Co2 emitted when burning a mass of fuel is fixed by the chemistry. For diesel, every litre of fuel you burn, using oxygen from the air, will release around 2.62kg of Co2. You can't change that. So if a car has a large fuel consumption, then it also has a large Co2 emission.
Now it's done in 2025 when the CCZ lifts all exemptions and targets all cars then ULEZ will almost certainly change to actually target pollution. Until then you can buy the most polluting car on the planet and drive it 24/7/365 in the ULEZ zone pumping out as much pollution as is humanly possible and so long as the car is not old it is not charged.
The Grenade is totally kosher for the urban driver.
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