RE: Official: 2022 INEOS Grenadier priced from £49k

[anonymous-user]

Marcus-7tcc2 said:

Old school Defenders divide people into two halves-one half hates them, cannot see the point etc etc. Other half forgives them all their shortcomings, accepts that and embraces the character heritage and cult following.
From your post there are no prizes to see which camp you sit in!
I'm the other-I have a 110 Utility that is very heavily modded and sits on huge tyres and is even more of a handful to drive than the normal one. Every drive is an occasion though, it's not my daily and it gets featured on SM (not by me I hasten to add-the tuning firm Tweaked showcase it as do others) and it's a brilliant car in it's own way. Not comfy, less economical, you have to grip it by the scruff of its neck to get the best out of it.
I love it to bits and am keeping it. It's also holding it's value and then some due to the cult following.
If you don't 'get' them then thats cool....there are lots of us that do though.

I don't hate them, like most classics I do think they're quite cool despite being pretty crap. I also totally get why you would want to mod one and make it better, why wouldn't you? Is there any buyer cross over from either classic defender or modded/restomod defender to the Grenadier though? Given that if you want a Defender you can buy or build a Defender why would anyone buy a Grenadier? If there really is a market for a Defender with a warranty surely one of the many specialist Defender firms would have filled it?

[Digga]

fblm said:

Marcus-7tcc2 said:

Old school Defenders divide people into two halves-one half hates them, cannot see the point etc etc. Other half forgives them all their shortcomings, accepts that and embraces the character heritage and cult following.
From your post there are no prizes to see which camp you sit in!
I'm the other-I have a 110 Utility that is very heavily modded and sits on huge tyres and is even more of a handful to drive than the normal one. Every drive is an occasion though, it's not my daily and it gets featured on SM (not by me I hasten to add-the tuning firm Tweaked showcase it as do others) and it's a brilliant car in it's own way. Not comfy, less economical, you have to grip it by the scruff of its neck to get the best out of it.
I love it to bits and am keeping it. It's also holding it's value and then some due to the cult following.
If you don't 'get' them then thats cool....there are lots of us that do though.

I don't hate them, like most classics I do think they're quite cool despite being pretty crap. I also totally get why you would want to mod one and make it better, why wouldn't you? Is there any buyer cross over from either classic defender or modded/restomod defender to the Grenadier though? Given that if you want a Defender you can buy or build a Defender why would anyone buy a Grenadier? If there really is a market for a Defender with a warranty surely one of the many specialist Defender firms would have filled it?

The fact there’s a market for both old and new Defender tells me there will be a market for the Grenadier too. In terms of size, cost and style it sort of sits between the too.

See also the market for the Mercedes G Wagen.

[wyson]

pquinn said:

blearyeyedboy said:

Out of interest, does INEOS have enough facilities around the world that would have use of a similar vehicle, increasing production runs and improving economies of scale? If used around large facilities and entirely away from the public road, CO2 wouldn't matter much.

Selling to yourself at cost is a heck of a way to buy a cheap fleet worldwide. Or is there an expert who can tell me id that idea is cobblers? (In which case, please do!)

Not sure you'd do it this way, cheaper to pay someone else to sort it for you even at scale. Though Amazon did go with that idea with buying into Rivian and building vans; 100000+ of them.


Best part of this debacle is watching one or two people who despite their apparent busy schedule and own long history of 'cockup & run before anyone notices the mistakes' just can't help hanging off every update and throwing in snark. You don't like it, we get it, move on, let it fail if it's going to.

https://ineosgrenadier.com/en/gb/explore/the-grenadier-videos-and-stories/building-the-grenadier/suspension

Informercial series answering your q’s. In short, designed and built by Magna who is a contract manufacturer for a lot of other firms.

Would love to do an overlanding expedition in something like this as a holiday. Looks awesome on youtube. Alas, one for the future when the little terrors have flown the nest.

Found these ‘driving around the world’ stories inspirational as well:

Check out this guys jacked up SLK that he took around the world:
https://www.jimrogers.com/

Someone who went round the world in a G wagon:
https://emercedesbenz.com/autos/mercedes-benz/g-cl...

This Grenadier seems like just the sort of car you’d want to take on journey’s like above.

Edited by wyson on Sunday 1st May 19:40

[BlackTank]

I bought my Mustang 5.0 6 speed manual because I wanted a daily driver TVR that actually started more than 60% of the time and that didn't break down at least once a week. The Grenadier may fill that role for those who had original Defenders but just couldn't put up with the sheer ball ache of running one daily. But let's be clear, at least in the UK this is not a farmer's vehicle but a lifestyle toy. I like it for that role, just like I like small volume weird cars.

[Bill]

wyson said:

This Grenadier seems like just the sort of car you’d want to take on journey’s like above.

It really isn't. You want something ubiquitous. The ballache involved in sourcing parts when something breaks cannot be underestimated.

And (I have no idea...) how well would the BMW engine deal with iffy fuel?

[anonymous-user]

BlackTank said:

I bought my Mustang 5.0 6 speed manual because I wanted a daily driver TVR that actually started more than 60% of the time and that didn't break down at least once a week. The Grenadier may fill that role for those who had original Defenders but just couldn't put up with the sheer ball ache of running one daily. But let's be clear, at least in the UK this is not a farmer's vehicle but a lifestyle toy. I like it for that role, just like I like small volume weird cars.

I think you may be right. I like the new Grenadier, it appeals even if the utilitarian design is only skin deep and does answer some of the problems with the old Defender like the gutless engines, even if they aren’t necessarily what the commercial buyer would be looking for.

[wyson]

Bill said:

It really isn't. You want something ubiquitous. The ballache involved in sourcing parts when something breaks cannot be underestimated.

And (I have no idea...) how well would the BMW engine deal with iffy fuel?

Also true, maybe a Toyota Landcruiser then! These and Toyota pickups seem to be everywhere.

[blearyeyedboy]

pquinn said:

Not sure you'd do it this way, cheaper to pay someone else to sort it for you even at scale. Though Amazon did go with that idea with buying into Rivian and building vans; 100000+ of them.


Best part of this debacle is watching one or two people who despite their apparent busy schedule and own long history of 'cockup & run before anyone notices the mistakes' just can't help hanging off every update and throwing in snark. You don't like it, we get it, move on, let it fail if it's going to.

Thanks to you and others for thoughtful replies. (And no snark intended by me, apologies if it came across in that way.)

[pSyCoSiS]

300bhp/ton said:

thewarlock said:

Aren't you passing on the Ineos too though?

Why are you so keen to defend a car that you're not going to buy?

Only passing on one new as I can't afford one. Doesn't mean I don't like it in general though. And would be interested should I have the money or as a used purchase. In the same way I'd be interested in buying a Bronco, Wrangler, Ranger Raptor or even a new Defender.

Let's face it Caterham build antique designed cars, some of which cost as much or more than the Grenadier. Yet few bash them on here.... despite the fact you get way less product for your money. (I like Caterham too, just using it as an example)

So, I really don't get all the handbag bashing by quite a lot of people on here. It's like continual PMT. When people say unfair or stupid things, I've generally tried to point out that they are either being naive or more often than not, factually wrong.

At the end of the day, I thought this forum was car enthusiasts. But it seems a large population of PH these days are only enthusiastic about trying very hard at being a senile version of Victor Meldrew.

300bhp/ton - I have missed your posts!

As for the Grendier - I like the name, the idea and concept also bodes pretty well. Let's see how they actually fare in terms of sales, real-world capability, future reliability, etc.

I cannot afford one of these or a new Defender, but if I could, for around £50k I would probably look at buying an approved-used FF Range Rover.

[fbwinston]

As a business owner these can make sense, the 5 seat is still commercial, so low road tax, low co car tax and when VAT and corp tax removed it actually costs £35k.

[BVB]

Now that 'is' a Defender. Great job.

[Lester H]

ImDesigner said:

And lots here slated the cost of the new Defender.

Are farmers still queuing up for the Grenadier?

I'm one who was cynical about the new Defender prices. I was wrong. They are big sellers. The Grenadier will not fail on price. It's hard for me to comprehend Fiesta or Astra at £25k. but it concentrated the mind and makes the Grenadier ( with novelty cachet) OK.

[British Beef]

jason61c said:

sorry, I meant the last 'proper' defender, which I think the INEOS is taking aim at. I don't think a 6 cylinder 4wd, car doing 28ish is bad going.

Sounds pretty good to me, my 1.6lt, 3 cylinder GR Yaris is averaging 29 mpg!!

If this 2.5 Mt thing can average 28 mpg while being hustled along, I would say that is pretty amazing.

[unpc]

Lester H said:

ImDesigner said:

And lots here slated the cost of the new Defender.

Are farmers still queuing up for the Grenadier?

I'm one who was cynical about the new Defender prices. I was wrong. They are big sellers. The Grenadier will not fail on price. It's hard for me to comprehend Fiesta or Astra at £25k. but it concentrated the mind and makes the Grenadier ( with novelty cachet) OK.

Just about every farmer I know wouldn't baulk at the asking price. If it's any good they'll lap them up.

[Familymad]

I’d agree re the price and farmers interest. I know of 3 Cumbrian sheep farmers who have TDCI 110’s and want one of these. They need to spend some profits (from a good year for lamb) and £50k sits just fine.

[chrisironside]

This looks like China state-sponsored a Land Rover rival twenty years ago but shelved it, and have now come back to it adding in touchscreens.

[cidered77]

British Beef said:

jason61c said:

sorry, I meant the last 'proper' defender, which I think the INEOS is taking aim at. I don't think a 6 cylinder 4wd, car doing 28ish is bad going.

Sounds pretty good to me, my 1.6lt, 3 cylinder GR Yaris is averaging 29 mpg!!

If this 2.5 Mt thing can average 28 mpg while being hustled along, I would say that is pretty amazing.

as a high quality input to this thread, i can confirm over similar miles (6,700 for the Yaris; 6,400 for the new Defender D250), the Yaris is precisely 1mpg better than the land rover. 31.6 vs. 32.6.

I'm not sure which car to be impressed with, whether i should be impressed at all, or really whether there was any point in sharing this in the first place

[Schermerhorn]

I'm surprised they aren't flogging these to armies around the world.

[NomduJour]

I’m not.

[DaveyBoyWonder]

chrisironside said:

This looks like China state-sponsored a Land Rover rival twenty years ago but shelved it, and have now come back to it adding in touchscreens.

Thought the same. Looks like a Russian army vehicle in that its dimensions just look a little bit "off" to me.