Ineos Grenadier customer cars arrive at dealers
Discussion
skwdenyer said:
AstonZagato said:
If your benchmark is a Wrangler, then I can understand why you might think a Grenadier is a marvellous leap forward.
LOL. Not my benchmark, no. This from one of the reviews seems to sum up what most are saying:AstonZagato said:
skwdenyer said:
AstonZagato said:
If your benchmark is a Wrangler, then I can understand why you might think a Grenadier is a marvellous leap forward.
LOL. Not my benchmark, no. This from one of the reviews seems to sum up what most are saying:It *is* possible to provide accurate steering and still use a solid axle, but you need something else in the loop - a control system, perhaps fully-powered hydraulics as used in the Citroen CX, and a choice to turn the steering wheel into a "heading director" whilst allowing the software to sort everything out with constant corrections.
The alternative is to mount the steering box (or indeed a rack, if you can cope with the kick-back off road) on the axle itself, and provide a far more flexible connection between steering column and steering box. Some US hotrodders do this with a sliding joint on the steering column. I've no idea how durable that is in the bush, nor how compliant it is with global regulation. You also need a lot of space around the lower steering column in this set-up, because it has to displace (angularly) with the axle's movement.
Both are possible. Whether they'd be desirable on a vehicle with this sort of design brief I'm not so sure.
I don't think either are possible to achieve. I don't think a modern ladder and solid axles could possibly be made as bad as the old Defender and a ladder can never be as good as the new Defender. 
Surpassing a Wrangler also isn't really any great claim. Even in 2023 they still drive really quite poorly.
As mentioned before the P38 showed nearly 30 years ago how good such a set up could be on road but it has to be discounted due to the air suspension although the ones converted to springs don't give away that much. The D2 is arguably the best benchmark. Excellent offroad yet still managed to be a very good road car.
It's something that LR never really get enough credit for which is how they evolved the chassis and axles from 1970 to 2000 from what started out as the Range Rover which was very rough and ready but more usable on road than the Land Rover and made subtle change after change until the D2 which drove like a totally different vehicle yet only had small changes, things like small harmonic weights under the swivels or the weights under the diffs and improved steering damping.
My expectation would be that in 2023 the Grenadier should have taken that notably further forward and that under 100mph and even on a poor road it should drive pretty well for a ladder chassis with live axles. The Wrangler doesn't. I think the old Disco drives better than the modern Wrangler.
Surpassing a Wrangler also isn't really any great claim. Even in 2023 they still drive really quite poorly.
As mentioned before the P38 showed nearly 30 years ago how good such a set up could be on road but it has to be discounted due to the air suspension although the ones converted to springs don't give away that much. The D2 is arguably the best benchmark. Excellent offroad yet still managed to be a very good road car.
It's something that LR never really get enough credit for which is how they evolved the chassis and axles from 1970 to 2000 from what started out as the Range Rover which was very rough and ready but more usable on road than the Land Rover and made subtle change after change until the D2 which drove like a totally different vehicle yet only had small changes, things like small harmonic weights under the swivels or the weights under the diffs and improved steering damping.
My expectation would be that in 2023 the Grenadier should have taken that notably further forward and that under 100mph and even on a poor road it should drive pretty well for a ladder chassis with live axles. The Wrangler doesn't. I think the old Disco drives better than the modern Wrangler.
DonkeyApple said:
I don't think either are possible to achieve. I don't think a modern ladder and solid axles could possibly be made as bad as the old Defender and a ladder can never be as good as the new Defender.
Surpassing a Wrangler also isn't really any great claim. Even in 2023 they still drive really quite poorly.
As mentioned before the P38 showed nearly 30 years ago how good such a set up could be on road but it has to be discounted due to the air suspension although the ones converted to springs don't give away that much. The D2 is arguably the best benchmark. Excellent offroad yet still managed to be a very good road car.
It's something that LR never really get enough credit for which is how they evolved the chassis and axles from 1970 to 2000 from what started out as the Range Rover which was very rough and ready but more usable on road than the Land Rover and made subtle change after change until the D2 which drove like a totally different vehicle yet only had small changes, things like small harmonic weights under the swivels or the weights under the diffs and improved steering damping.
My expectation would be that in 2023 the Grenadier should have taken that notably further forward and that under 100mph and even on a poor road it should drive pretty well for a ladder chassis with live axles. The Wrangler doesn't. I think the old Disco drives better than the modern Wrangler.
excellent post! thinking back, the D2 was a fantastic car to drive Surpassing a Wrangler also isn't really any great claim. Even in 2023 they still drive really quite poorly.
As mentioned before the P38 showed nearly 30 years ago how good such a set up could be on road but it has to be discounted due to the air suspension although the ones converted to springs don't give away that much. The D2 is arguably the best benchmark. Excellent offroad yet still managed to be a very good road car.
It's something that LR never really get enough credit for which is how they evolved the chassis and axles from 1970 to 2000 from what started out as the Range Rover which was very rough and ready but more usable on road than the Land Rover and made subtle change after change until the D2 which drove like a totally different vehicle yet only had small changes, things like small harmonic weights under the swivels or the weights under the diffs and improved steering damping.
My expectation would be that in 2023 the Grenadier should have taken that notably further forward and that under 100mph and even on a poor road it should drive pretty well for a ladder chassis with live axles. The Wrangler doesn't. I think the old Disco drives better than the modern Wrangler.
DonkeyApple said:
I don't think either are possible to achieve. I don't think a modern ladder and solid axles could possibly be made as bad as the old Defender and a ladder can never be as good as the new Defender.
Surpassing a Wrangler also isn't really any great claim. Even in 2023 they still drive really quite poorly.
As mentioned before the P38 showed nearly 30 years ago how good such a set up could be on road but it has to be discounted due to the air suspension although the ones converted to springs don't give away that much. The D2 is arguably the best benchmark. Excellent offroad yet still managed to be a very good road car.
It's something that LR never really get enough credit for which is how they evolved the chassis and axles from 1970 to 2000 from what started out as the Range Rover which was very rough and ready but more usable on road than the Land Rover and made subtle change after change until the D2 which drove like a totally different vehicle yet only had small changes, things like small harmonic weights under the swivels or the weights under the diffs and improved steering damping.
My expectation would be that in 2023 the Grenadier should have taken that notably further forward and that under 100mph and even on a poor road it should drive pretty well for a ladder chassis with live axles. The Wrangler doesn't. I think the old Disco drives better than the modern Wrangler.
I’m very unclear why you think the IG hasn’t achieved this feat?Surpassing a Wrangler also isn't really any great claim. Even in 2023 they still drive really quite poorly.
As mentioned before the P38 showed nearly 30 years ago how good such a set up could be on road but it has to be discounted due to the air suspension although the ones converted to springs don't give away that much. The D2 is arguably the best benchmark. Excellent offroad yet still managed to be a very good road car.
It's something that LR never really get enough credit for which is how they evolved the chassis and axles from 1970 to 2000 from what started out as the Range Rover which was very rough and ready but more usable on road than the Land Rover and made subtle change after change until the D2 which drove like a totally different vehicle yet only had small changes, things like small harmonic weights under the swivels or the weights under the diffs and improved steering damping.
My expectation would be that in 2023 the Grenadier should have taken that notably further forward and that under 100mph and even on a poor road it should drive pretty well for a ladder chassis with live axles. The Wrangler doesn't. I think the old Disco drives better than the modern Wrangler.
aponting389 said:
excellent post! thinking back, the D2 was a fantastic car to drive
Given the mechanical simplicity underneath it was impressive what they achieved. I bought one as a doner for the Classic restomod to get all the additional handling bits as well as the LT230 drivetrain bits. Just those handling parts subtly transformed the road drive. There was some clever and simple stuff they did. Oh, and the sound deadening! Amazing how that tech had progressed since 1972! tomvcarter said:
I'm interested to buy one for farm and family work, but a little worried about buying a first generation car. Further more there are loads on for sale right now...
57 grenadiers on Autotrader right now for less that MSRP, is this people getting out quickly as they don't like them?
This was probably one of the last new car launches where the speculators were in for an easy turn so probably plenty of buyers who never planned to actually use it as a vehicle. 57 grenadiers on Autotrader right now for less that MSRP, is this people getting out quickly as they don't like them?
So having collected mine and read all the issues, I cannot find any of the points raised to be an issue
over 6ft 1 foot step is no issue
No pings or bongs
steering is precise, no road wobble or searching and not noisy at 75.
Steating position very good if you set it up.
Means mine is not for sale
over 6ft 1 foot step is no issue
No pings or bongs
steering is precise, no road wobble or searching and not noisy at 75.
Steating position very good if you set it up.
Means mine is not for sale
Phud said:
So having collected mine and read all the issues, I cannot find any of the points raised to be an issue
over 6ft 1 foot step is no issue
No pings or bongs
steering is precise, no road wobble or searching and not noisy at 75.
Steating position very good if you set it up.
Means mine is not for sale
Good to hear some positive comments for once , good luck with her Phudover 6ft 1 foot step is no issue
No pings or bongs
steering is precise, no road wobble or searching and not noisy at 75.
Steating position very good if you set it up.
Means mine is not for sale
Phud said:
So having collected mine and read all the issues, I cannot find any of the points raised to be an issue
over 6ft 1 foot step is no issue
No pings or bongs
steering is precise, no road wobble or searching and not noisy at 75.
Steating position very good if you set it up.
Means mine is not for sale
Good to hear some positive comments for once , good luck with her Phudover 6ft 1 foot step is no issue
No pings or bongs
steering is precise, no road wobble or searching and not noisy at 75.
Steating position very good if you set it up.
Means mine is not for sale
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