Ineos Grenadier customer cars arrive at dealers
Discussion
Fish said:
The big issue will be reliability which I hope they have covered, they seem well engineered. The new defender is so unreliable, I know of 6 5 of which have broken down.. one needed a new engine under 20,000 miles and one is being returned as they can't even fix it. The service from jlr is crap and the vehicle is crap..
4 of those people have grenadiers on order and at least half have vowed never to buy jlr again. Landrover have sold themselves out..
4 of those people have grenadiers on order and at least half have vowed never to buy jlr again. Landrover have sold themselves out..
I’d never invest in a JLR product. I’ve seen to many horror stories sadly.
It should do its job perfectly well.
It's a shame that it hobbled itself from the outset by being a visual facsimile of someone else's product. A sort of sad cultural appropriation that really wasn't needed and the end result is that it will forever look like someone else's face but after a stroke.
The other issue being the price. Very few people genuinely 'need' such a product. It is very much a lifestyle product and such a huge purchase price and running cost does alienate the core consumer market for this sort of toy.
The key will be how robust their corporate sales are and retail sales in other markets.
It's nice to see a new car and especially of a type that is so overtly coming to an end but the eternal shame will be that it was born from trying to copy someone else which will always leave it with a bit of a stigma.
It's a shame that it hobbled itself from the outset by being a visual facsimile of someone else's product. A sort of sad cultural appropriation that really wasn't needed and the end result is that it will forever look like someone else's face but after a stroke.
The other issue being the price. Very few people genuinely 'need' such a product. It is very much a lifestyle product and such a huge purchase price and running cost does alienate the core consumer market for this sort of toy.
The key will be how robust their corporate sales are and retail sales in other markets.
It's nice to see a new car and especially of a type that is so overtly coming to an end but the eternal shame will be that it was born from trying to copy someone else which will always leave it with a bit of a stigma.
DonkeyApple said:
It's a shame that it hobbled itself from the outset by being a visual facsimile of someone else's product. A sort of sad cultural appropriation that really wasn't needed and the end result is that it will forever look like someone else's face but after a stroke.
The other issue being the price. Very few people genuinely 'need' such a product. It is very much a lifestyle product and such a huge purchase price and running cost does alienate the core consumer market for this sort of toy.
Both the issues I have with it, they could've made something more interesting if they hadn't been so set on the "Land Rover" silhouette and while I accept that most cars are surprisingly expensive these days, a £58k starting price is too high for something that's supposed to be a utilitarian off roader. Give me a really stripped down one without the fancy trimmings for nearer £40k and it would be a more interesting prospect.The other issue being the price. Very few people genuinely 'need' such a product. It is very much a lifestyle product and such a huge purchase price and running cost does alienate the core consumer market for this sort of toy.
I really like the interiors in these, it does have that combo of utilitarianism and quality. But the exterior!? Goodness me! It looks like something out of Grand Theft Auto made into real life. I do want it to work out and sell mind you, but I can't help but think INEOS are chasing after a very small market that have probably bought a new Land Cruiser since the original Defender went off sale.
Michael
Michael
So a successful businessman has invested in a new car... and has taken a commercial approach of partnering with experts, so the engine is BMW / the seats are recarro, the suspension and underpinnings come from a company who build tough agricultural reliable machinery... they have thought through the detail from the simplicity of the car (nothing not needed, e.g. no reverse parking auto driving stuff), to how you add components to it, how you carry loads, to batteries, lighting, winches, etc. - and then they acquired an experienced factory to build it where they not only can ramp up their own production as there is spare capacity, but where they get the contract to continue build the smart cars and parts of various MB models - so instant income stream...
some will like the car, some won't but from a business perspective what a fascinating story of how a multi-national in one sector builds a business in a totally different one in 5 years through a thoroughly pragmatic and logical approach - compare this to TVR
I wish them all the success possible - I would buy one of these over a modern defender were I in the market / selling the classic RR.
some will like the car, some won't but from a business perspective what a fascinating story of how a multi-national in one sector builds a business in a totally different one in 5 years through a thoroughly pragmatic and logical approach - compare this to TVR
I wish them all the success possible - I would buy one of these over a modern defender were I in the market / selling the classic RR.
My order has been in for ages and I am hoping for delivery around the end of February.
I sold my 1989 LR110CSW in August 2022, so every extra day of waiting is a nuisance. The big press event is embargoed for driving impressions until the 8th February, so I'm hoping there will be an explosion of information from the motoring media, from Ineos Automotive and the UK agents.
As for the comments; yes it is more expensive than originally envisaged, but show me a full sized 4x4 that isn't. You cannot buy a basic LR and the used ones are stupidly expensive. Toyota laughed when I asked about delivery and Jeeps are crazily expensive in the UK.
I've taken every opportunity to drive the various versions of the Grenadier, from the 2B prototypes to the PTO2s, and they all seem to drive well on and off road. A modern LR is a much better road car, but I need it to be comfortable, not handle like a pretend sports car, (as I have a Morgan and NB MX5 in the garage).
I even like the cabin and instruments, shades of 70s HiFi, military vehicles, private aircraft and heavy plant. The seats are really comfortable, (far better than my old 110, even after new seat cushions and spacer plates), and the view out is pretty good.
Criticisms: it is far too heavy, 2.7tonnes, but the underpinnings are massive, making the old Defender chassis and axles look spindly; I get the impression that it has been "plated down" to meet the taxation class and that much higher payload versions may be released later. It is also declared as rather thirsty, a consequence of a bigger engine, extra weight and a greater cross sectional area, (and, perhaps a better testing regime).
I sold my 1989 LR110CSW in August 2022, so every extra day of waiting is a nuisance. The big press event is embargoed for driving impressions until the 8th February, so I'm hoping there will be an explosion of information from the motoring media, from Ineos Automotive and the UK agents.
As for the comments; yes it is more expensive than originally envisaged, but show me a full sized 4x4 that isn't. You cannot buy a basic LR and the used ones are stupidly expensive. Toyota laughed when I asked about delivery and Jeeps are crazily expensive in the UK.
I've taken every opportunity to drive the various versions of the Grenadier, from the 2B prototypes to the PTO2s, and they all seem to drive well on and off road. A modern LR is a much better road car, but I need it to be comfortable, not handle like a pretend sports car, (as I have a Morgan and NB MX5 in the garage).
I even like the cabin and instruments, shades of 70s HiFi, military vehicles, private aircraft and heavy plant. The seats are really comfortable, (far better than my old 110, even after new seat cushions and spacer plates), and the view out is pretty good.
Criticisms: it is far too heavy, 2.7tonnes, but the underpinnings are massive, making the old Defender chassis and axles look spindly; I get the impression that it has been "plated down" to meet the taxation class and that much higher payload versions may be released later. It is also declared as rather thirsty, a consequence of a bigger engine, extra weight and a greater cross sectional area, (and, perhaps a better testing regime).
300bhp/ton said:
SmithCorona said:
You're clearly passionate about the Grenadier, I'm just not sure that the demand for a £70k SUV with solid axles is there.
Sorry, but where have you been living? No meaning it in a nasty way, but there are simply loads of live axle vehicles available, many vastly more expensive.Newsflash, the world is bigger than the UK market and where you live.
Please go back and edit to make sure they are both attributed to the right person.
SmithCorona said:
300bhp/ton said:
SmithCorona said:
You're clearly passionate about the Grenadier, I'm just not sure that the demand for a £70k SUV with solid axles is there.
Sorry, but where have you been living? No meaning it in a nasty way, but there are simply loads of live axle vehicles available, many vastly more expensive.Newsflash, the world is bigger than the UK market and where you live.
k dropped!!akirk said:
So a successful businessman has invested in a new car... and has taken a commercial approach of partnering with experts, so the engine is BMW / the seats are recarro, the suspension and underpinnings come from a company who build tough agricultural reliable machinery... they have thought through the detail from the simplicity of the car (nothing not needed, e.g. no reverse parking auto driving stuff), to how you add components to it, how you carry loads, to batteries, lighting, winches, etc. - and then they acquired an experienced factory to build it where they not only can ramp up their own production as there is spare capacity, but where they get the contract to continue build the smart cars and parts of various MB models - so instant income stream...
some will like the car, some won't but from a business perspective what a fascinating story of how a multi-national in one sector builds a business in a totally different one in 5 years through a thoroughly pragmatic and logical approach - compare this to TVR
I wish them all the success possible - I would buy one of these over a modern defender were I in the market / selling the classic RR.
Chinese, Japanese and Koreans been doing this for a long time.some will like the car, some won't but from a business perspective what a fascinating story of how a multi-national in one sector builds a business in a totally different one in 5 years through a thoroughly pragmatic and logical approach - compare this to TVR
I wish them all the success possible - I would buy one of these over a modern defender were I in the market / selling the classic RR.
Not sure how Ratcliffe's after service model will work?
jhonn said:
Also, as a soon-to-be owner, we felt it odd that he hadn't been made aware of the big launch/media event currently happening up this neck of the woods.
I guess he is, in some minds, about the only person they dont need there. He is already coverted!Plus as said, if its mainly a press briefing event then again, customers wont be the target.
Bill said:
So not a commercial vehicle for tax purposes??
I'm buying a commercial station wagon, so class N1, with a reduced rear passenger space to favour the load bay. In the UK, that means less vehicle excise duty from the start and reduced, "commercial" speed limits. The Grenadier is too heavy to be classed as a dual-purpose vehicle, unlike the old Defender.HMRC are being a bit coy about whether you can recover the VAT, stating it depends on circumstances, but the expectation is the N1s can recover the VAT, the Belstaff special editions cannot. I am not VAT registered, so not an issue for me. I did not want some of the bells and whistles on the Belstaff Editions, wanted to reduce the entry price and wanted the RFL reductions. My vehicle will be £60,821 delivered, (at the old price) and nearly £67k after the price rises.
Edited by jeremy996 on Thursday 2nd February 13:01
akirk said:
So a successful businessman has invested in a new car... and has taken a commercial approach of partnering with experts, so the engine is BMW / the seats are recarro, the suspension and underpinnings come from a company who build tough agricultural reliable machinery... they have thought through the detail from the simplicity of the car (nothing not needed, e.g. no reverse parking auto driving stuff), to how you add components to it, how you carry loads, to batteries, lighting, winches, etc. - and then they acquired an experienced factory to build it where they not only can ramp up their own production as there is spare capacity, but where they get the contract to continue build the smart cars and parts of various MB models - so instant income stream...
some will like the car, some won't but from a business perspective what a fascinating story of how a multi-national in one sector builds a business in a totally different one in 5 years through a thoroughly pragmatic and logical approach - compare this to TVR
I wish them all the success possible - I would buy one of these over a modern defender were I in the market / selling the classic RR.
some will like the car, some won't but from a business perspective what a fascinating story of how a multi-national in one sector builds a business in a totally different one in 5 years through a thoroughly pragmatic and logical approach - compare this to TVR
I wish them all the success possible - I would buy one of these over a modern defender were I in the market / selling the classic RR.
Golfgtimk28v said:
Now, I'm just waiting for the TVR car thread to show all the neigh sayers that it wasn't just big scam, 
Yeah I mean, fair play to the guy, and much wider team, behind it. As said, to pull it off and get even this far is a huge huge achievement. All they have to do now is sell!
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