Kit car industry and how to revive interest and sales
Discussion
What do you think? Could a kit car company build this?
It is the Peugeot's Onyx V8 show car. By the way that copper is not paint, don't know if I like or dislike. Personal I doubt any kit car company would take the risk, as it would mean taking on the Ultima. I think that is very sad. New topic cars you wish had become kits?
Steve_D said:
KDIcarmad said:
.....Now explain why there are so few new design being created by the kit car industry? Or why more designers are not employed?
SimpleHow much will it cost me to design and develop it?
Where am I going to get that money?
How long will the process take?
Will anyone buy it?
Steve
Sell less and less!
PisstnBroke said:
A little about me im 27, I've owned the G32 since I was 21. Always been into cars and I guess the reason for my choice in car was because of being a toddler with my dad having a Dutton Pheaton. But other people my age or younger tend to think what the heck am I doing, I'm wasting my money with some thinking that the G32 or even Caterham 7's are ugly as they only like modern bling type cars.
Yes you are unusual, very few 21 year old own kit cars. Still at 27 and still owning the same car you had at 21 is also unusual. Your last line "the G32 or even Caterham 7's are ugly as they only like modern bling type cars", funny the people I know of your age who live near me, also dislike the 7's. The line I liked was a Granddad Roller Skate for a 7. They all drive car they have modified, engine swaps and rebuilt from crashed wrecks shows some do have the skills. They did like older more "bling" cars like the Nova. What do you think we should do to get more younger people buying kits?
Tom74 said:
It would make sense for the budding kit designer to investigate the 'green' options as that's the way to the marketing man and the tax breaks at the moment.
There seems to have been lots of ideas on this thread but not many of them seem to fit the market - of course I could be missing the point and a new market is being looked at? Entrance strategy? High cost seems to have put off most early adopters of electric cars even with the tax breaks....
I agree the green market will grow a lot over the next few years. The cost of petrol does not look set to drop, that will create a market and the kit car industry need to be ready. Clearly this will need a lot of good design and even better marketing. There seems to have been lots of ideas on this thread but not many of them seem to fit the market - of course I could be missing the point and a new market is being looked at? Entrance strategy? High cost seems to have put off most early adopters of electric cars even with the tax breaks....
As to fitting the market, we are trying to revive interest and increase sales. To sell to people who don't want the cars that fit the with the current market.
Tom74 said:
Sorry, was going to expand on my initial post that the other main area as I see it currently is in historic replicas.
Thing is, the kit industry is one of enthusiasts building kits for other enthusiasts to build, what is needed is a bigger pool of enthusiasts! I certainly will betaking indoctrinating my daughter as she already watches motor racing with me and is only 15 months old.
Never got the Cobra thing, but a lot of others do, so what historic replicas do you want? I think there are a lot of grate cars out there, but only a few people want one. It is hard to say which would and would not sell. There are a number I would want, and I bet nobody else would. Thing is, the kit industry is one of enthusiasts building kits for other enthusiasts to build, what is needed is a bigger pool of enthusiasts! I certainly will be
As to needed a big pool of enthusiasts, we do and more.
I will tell you want keeps me coming back to kit cars is three wheeler's. We have seen a few new three wheeler this year and last. it could be a grow area.
SystemParanoia said:
OlberJ said:
I'm surprised the drifters haven't picked up on three wheelers considering how easy they go sideways.
That could be a big big market right there with the yoofs.
kit cars arnt allowed to competeThat could be a big big market right there with the yoofs.
space frames and seperate chassis + body vehicles are banned
Since my last posting I have spoke to a friend who does drift racing and they state there in not a ban on production three wheeler's that they know off. As to kit cars these are blocked, but a few owners have try to enter them. They would love to see a kit car class. Not really a lot of help.
A quick question Caterham Seven are production cars, so would these be able to race? If yes is anybody using one?
A quick question Caterham Seven are production cars, so would these be able to race? If yes is anybody using one?
Edited by KDIcarmad on Friday 21st September 15:13
I don't like the mass of Seven and as said before never got Cobras. Not everybody want the same thing. It is a fact that sales of kit cars has gone down since the 1980-90's. The reasons is cheap secondhand mass production sports cars! The Seven is an old design that fit with track day use, what happens if less people go to track days.
Not everybody wants a track day car, shock horror. Some people want a car that is more car than a motorbike with two extra wheels! Kit Cars are about fun this does not have to be at a track day. Some even want to stay dry when it rain! Personal I like coupes, something that has almost gone from the current kit car seen in the UK.
A quick note after the comments on drift racing. Are any kits used in rallying or rally cross? I know they have been used in trials.
Not everybody wants a track day car, shock horror. Some people want a car that is more car than a motorbike with two extra wheels! Kit Cars are about fun this does not have to be at a track day. Some even want to stay dry when it rain! Personal I like coupes, something that has almost gone from the current kit car seen in the UK.
A quick note after the comments on drift racing. Are any kits used in rallying or rally cross? I know they have been used in trials.
I found this from Japan...
It is called the "K-4", sold by Mitsuoka Motor and is powered by a 50cc engine. They claim it can be put together in 40 hours for 500 pieces. I did not know Japan had any kit cars, modified yes and some very odd like one, but kit cars!
Could any British kit be build as quickly (outside a show by a real person)?
It is called the "K-4", sold by Mitsuoka Motor and is powered by a 50cc engine. They claim it can be put together in 40 hours for 500 pieces. I did not know Japan had any kit cars, modified yes and some very odd like one, but kit cars!
Could any British kit be build as quickly (outside a show by a real person)?
I think this a different version of the same car. For these both are tasteful! If you like sevens... More normal are these...
Production car can be badly designed, just looking at these makes you wonder how the Japanese car industry can let crimes like these onto the road. Most 1970's and 80's kits were as well designed! Now lets get back our poorly design kit car. Still that white Jag like one could be fun! I know I am already washing my had with soap!
Edited by KDIcarmad on Friday 28th September 20:12
I am going to post an interesting idea. A friend's wife has a bad back, so can not push there son pushchair. This is a picture of it...
To help her he fitted two electric motors on to the real wheels. For testing these had two controls. Meaning the chair could be steered by these motors. I wondered if you could build a car with control like this. I looked on the internet and final found this...www.electricevette.com ...The eVette.
This uses the rear electric motors to steer and has free turn front wheel. I hope this inspires a few of you to think about how electric and hybrid could be very different to current cars. I see a performance car that can spin in it own length as a candid for great sprint and hill climb car. The builders of the eVette see it as a car from the disable, I see these as more than that. I would have a steering wheel and foot controls personal to increase the normal feel.
I talked with a friend about this car and they talked about an idea they had. In this idea two electric motors are used to power all 4 wheels. Not as you would expect front and real, but the left and right side wheels so these would steer the car as well as push it along. Would this work, it sounds like it could work, but would it? I think it would be very odd to drive and control could be lacking as I imagine it would crab like, side ways.
I personal hope we see electric car become apart of the kit industry in the near future.
To help her he fitted two electric motors on to the real wheels. For testing these had two controls. Meaning the chair could be steered by these motors. I wondered if you could build a car with control like this. I looked on the internet and final found this...www.electricevette.com ...The eVette.
This uses the rear electric motors to steer and has free turn front wheel. I hope this inspires a few of you to think about how electric and hybrid could be very different to current cars. I see a performance car that can spin in it own length as a candid for great sprint and hill climb car. The builders of the eVette see it as a car from the disable, I see these as more than that. I would have a steering wheel and foot controls personal to increase the normal feel.
I talked with a friend about this car and they talked about an idea they had. In this idea two electric motors are used to power all 4 wheels. Not as you would expect front and real, but the left and right side wheels so these would steer the car as well as push it along. Would this work, it sounds like it could work, but would it? I think it would be very odd to drive and control could be lacking as I imagine it would crab like, side ways.
I personal hope we see electric car become apart of the kit industry in the near future.
The eVette works and is driven on the US roads, so the idea for that works. As this is three wheeled it would need to past the MSVA, what are the rules under this on steering. I know there are rules on rear braking. I do wonder what a tester would make of an eVette. Are there any out there reading this?
The second idea side to side steer is just an untried idea. That I don't think would work.
I read that a Germany company test a drive-wire system on a BMW so that may give an opening for these.
The second idea side to side steer is just an untried idea. That I don't think would work.
I read that a Germany company test a drive-wire system on a BMW so that may give an opening for these.
TheLastPost said:
The only guidance given on single front wheel tricycles relates to those with 'motorcycle type steering' (which I would interpret as meaning handlebars and forks?).
Otherwise, it's covered by the catch-all design & construction clause:
'Check all aspects of the design and construction of the vehicle such that no danger is caused or is likely to be caused to its driver, passengers or any other road users or pedestrians.'
This, and its equivalent clause in SVA/IVA, was the one that really worried me when SVA was first introduced: depending on the will of the governing body, it can be used to stifle pretty much all innovation in the same way as the homebuilt aircraft rules: you can't use it until it's been proven safe, and you can't prove it safe until it's demonstrated a track record of safety in use.
If it was used as a race car and won a number of race would that prove it works and was safe? A car can be test off road. The question is how would it demonstrate it was safe. I do not see this endangering the drive. I mean if it goes wrong you would just go round and round, only a good idea on the M25. Otherwise, it's covered by the catch-all design & construction clause:
'Check all aspects of the design and construction of the vehicle such that no danger is caused or is likely to be caused to its driver, passengers or any other road users or pedestrians.'
This, and its equivalent clause in SVA/IVA, was the one that really worried me when SVA was first introduced: depending on the will of the governing body, it can be used to stifle pretty much all innovation in the same way as the homebuilt aircraft rules: you can't use it until it's been proven safe, and you can't prove it safe until it's demonstrated a track record of safety in use.
Edited by KDIcarmad on Monday 1st October 19:08
Hiller Flying Platform
Going right off point, I know there are plans around to build this, cannot find them now. If you stay under 10 meters these are not covered by normal air rules, they are not treat as an aircraft. I was told that by a friend who flies model aircraft. Jet powered model aircraft that are big.
More on topic is this ...
The UrbaCar a little brother to the Monobox. It come from a US Magazine and the plans are still sold, see http://www.rqriley.com/u-car.html
Going right off point, I know there are plans around to build this, cannot find them now. If you stay under 10 meters these are not covered by normal air rules, they are not treat as an aircraft. I was told that by a friend who flies model aircraft. Jet powered model aircraft that are big.
More on topic is this ...
The UrbaCar a little brother to the Monobox. It come from a US Magazine and the plans are still sold, see http://www.rqriley.com/u-car.html
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