Discussion
I built a 3.9 powered Westie that smoked just about everything. I'm used to sports bikes but still found it awesome. Used a 4 barrel Webber carb rather than EFI to avoid notorious setting up problems. Under bonnet temps are high and engines get hot quickly - even specially designed rad just doesn't have the frontal area of other V8 installations like Cobra's. Power to weight ratio is up with Hypercars 340bhp/tonne. I miss mine badly. Good luck - shiny side up!
Understeer? Not a chance - remember that a Rover V8 is all alloy and weighs a lot less than a 2 litre Pinto and many other engines.
As for the character of the car yes it was a bit weird but V8's are mellifluous and therefore can be forgiven anything. I used to get excited just starting it up
As for the character of the car yes it was a bit weird but V8's are mellifluous and therefore can be forgiven anything. I used to get excited just starting it up
burblev8 said:
Understeer? Not a chance - remember that a Rover V8 is all alloy and weighs a lot less than a 2 litre Pinto and many other engines.
As for the character of the car yes it was a bit weird but V8's are mellifluous and therefore can be forgiven anything. I used to get excited just starting it up
1) The Rover V8 is light for a V8, but it is still heavier than a Pinto
2) The Pinto itself is arguably way too heavy for a '7' type car - I'd certainly never consider fitting anything as heavy as the Pinto
3) You need to be aware that not only is the RV8 engine quite bulky and heavy - the gearbox (be it SD1 or T5) is also much heavier than most boxes you'd use with a 4-cylinder engine.
4) The box and bellhousing are so bulky that they tend to push the engine further forward than would be necessary with a 4 cylinder, in order to ensure that the bellhousing clears the front bulkhead and the bos fits within the transmission tunnel.
In other words, don't expect a V8 Westfield to be anything like as nimble as a 'normal' Seven.
Myths all of it 
Rover V8 is lighter than Pinto, gearbox may be heavier than some but no one says that when people fit a cossie lump with a T5 do they?
For ref:
My T5 box fully loaded with concentric release, bellhousing and gearlever 42kg
Caterham 6 speed 34kg
Quaiffe 6 speed 37kg
Type 9 close ratio 45kg
I wouldn't class the T5 as much heavier than any of them really.
Check out www.seight.com for details on weights. Ian who's site it is sprints his Seight and it has a 50-50 weight distribution.
Give me a V8 anyday.
Mike
>> Edited by seight on Wednesday 29th December 10:57
Rover V8 is lighter than Pinto, gearbox may be heavier than some but no one says that when people fit a cossie lump with a T5 do they?
For ref:
My T5 box fully loaded with concentric release, bellhousing and gearlever 42kg
Caterham 6 speed 34kg
Quaiffe 6 speed 37kg
Type 9 close ratio 45kg
I wouldn't class the T5 as much heavier than any of them really.
Check out www.seight.com for details on weights. Ian who's site it is sprints his Seight and it has a 50-50 weight distribution.
Give me a V8 anyday.
Mike
>> Edited by seight on Wednesday 29th December 10:57
ciscodisco said:
I am thinking of purchasing a V8 powered Westfield as I just have a "thing" about V8's.I have owned many V8 cars in the past,I would welcome advice /comments / do's / dont's,
Thanks Ian.
Have you seen this one? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=29750&item=4514303547&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW Reserve not met but could be a bargain??
Mark
I've worked on pinto's and other 4 cylinder iron block engines and they are heavy. Makes you appreciate an alloy v8. As for v6 iron blocks, yikes! Not for me. seight said:
Myths all of it
Rover V8 is lighter than Pinto, gearbox may be heavier than some but no one says that when people fit a cossie lump with a T5 do they?
For ref:
My T5 box fully loaded with concentric release, bellhousing and gearlever 42kg
Caterham 6 speed 34kg
Quaiffe 6 speed 37kg
Type 9 close ratio 45kg
I wouldn't class the T5 as much heavier than any of them really.
Mike
>> Edited by seight on Wednesday 29th December 10:57
On the contrary...the myth is that the Rover V8 is 'just as light' or 'nearly the same weight' as the Pinto. Perpetuated as an excuse for petrolheads to spend load of money fitting the admittedly much better Rover unit instead of the Pinto that came free with the rusty Sierra donor car.
Rover V8 = 160kg
Pinto = 135kg
And I notice you choose to highlight in bold the heaviest possible commonly used 4 cylinder gearbox to compare against the T5! ;-)
For the record, the 'other' Rover V8 gearbox, the SD1/LT77, weighs 47 kg approx, but is a bugger to handle compared to the T5 'cos you can't separate it from the bellhousing to remove it.
For the sake of round figures, lets say that the T5 or LT77 weigh 20-25% more than a decent 5 speed for a 4 cylinder engine.
It should be reiterated that the Pinto is a boat anchor and an abortion of an engine and should under no circumstances be fitted to a 7-type car anyway. Ditto the Pinto-based Cosworth lump which, as you say, is also fitted with the T5 box.
A 'sensible'(Rover K-series, Toyota 4AGE or Ford Zetec?) car derived engine for a '7' should weigh in the region of 100 - 105Kg max.
See www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?fid=9&tid=12640&action=printable for real, measured figures, not the myths!
These weight differences may not sound much (after all, what does 60kg difference between a K-series and a RV8 matter?), but remember we are talking about cars that, if designed and built properly, shouldn't weight much more than 500-550 kilos all-up. Also, I say again, the bellhousing on the RV8 almost always pushes the engine forward in the chassis. With the extra weight of the engine a move forward of just a few inches in an 8 foot wheelbase makes a dramatic difference to weight distribution on a 7-type car.
Look at it another way - would you expect the weight of an extra person sat far forward in your engine bay to improve your handling?
The Rover V8 is a great engine - lovely noise, massive torque and cheap as chips. It is relatively light, but also relatively underpowered by modern standards. My 5 litre Griffith is supposed to produce 340bhp, but I reckon TVR use Blackpool donkeys in their dyno instead of proper horses - about 300bhp is probably nearer the mark in reality. Any self-respecting modern 'performance' engine should give 100bhp/litre IMHO.
If you want straight line acceleration, the RV8's torque is highly addictive and it's almost worth it for the noise alone.
Trouble is, the traditional strong point of 'Seven' type lightweights is their handling, and in this respect any large engine is a very serious handicap. In the case of the RV8, the huge torque is also a potential disadvantage in reality - the transition from understeer caused by the big lump of an engine uo front to snap oversteer as the torque suddenly overwhelms the grip of the lightly loaded rear end makes them just about undriveable in the wet and bloody hairy even in the dry.
Lets keep V8's in Cobras and TVR's, where they belong!
Hey, but what about my lightened flywheel, tubular instead of cast iron manifolds, carbon intake etc ?? Do those weights include ancilliaries like power steering, air con etc? My Range Rover pulley system has gone in favour of a P6 setup too.
I just checked some photos of my old Zetec Westfield and my V8 is no further forward than the std Zetec install (I believe the tunnel is wider to accomodate the bellhousing). Also my heavier gearbox is right in the middle of the car.
I'm not saying a V8 7 type car can be as nimble as some BECs but they are not the barges some people imagine them to be.
I think you missed the bit about Ian Croker's car having 50/50 weight distribution with driver 
Mike
>> Edited by seight on Thursday 30th December 11:31
Do those weights include ancilliaries like power steering, air con etc? My Range Rover pulley system has gone in favour of a P6 setup too. I just checked some photos of my old Zetec Westfield and my V8 is no further forward than the std Zetec install (I believe the tunnel is wider to accomodate the bellhousing). Also my heavier gearbox is right in the middle of the car.
I'm not saying a V8 7 type car can be as nimble as some BECs but they are not the barges some people imagine them to be.
I think you missed the bit about Ian Croker's car having 50/50 weight distribution with driver
Mike
>> Edited by seight on Thursday 30th December 11:31
Martin, agree with most of what you say apart from referring to the Pinto as an Anchor! Yes it's heavy, but for reliablilty, when set up correctly, they will go on for ever, much like the Crossflow. 200bhp possible out of N/A Pintos now as you'll see in the press. Oh, and isn't the cossie lump based on a Pinto........
mandela said:
My 5 speed close ratio heavy duty type 9 gearbox with oil, stick and knob weighes 34kg.
The guy who staes it weighs 45kg is talking rubbish
www.fluke-motorsport.co.uk/weight/engine_trans.html
Martin_S said:
It should be reiterated that the Pinto is a boat anchor and an abortion of an engine and should under no circumstances be fitted to a 7-type car anyway.
Although I can see that as a free engine in a donor it might be worth keeping for the hard-of-spending, but it is also TOO TALL and has led to a plethora of cars that have a nose, bonnet and scuttle all up there in the wind where Chapman never intended.
seight said:
I think you missed the bit about Ian Croker's car having 50/50 weight distribution with driver
Mike
No, I didn't miss it. A really decent lightweight 'clubmans' type sportscar, even a front engine one, ought to have a rearward weight bias!
Anyway, probably just means the driver is a fat bastard like me - have you ever tried setting the corner weights on a 400 kilo car with 100+ kilos of driver and clothing sat off-centre over the back axle? There's only so much you can screw a spring seat up and down, ya know!
>> Edited by Martin_S on Thursday 30th December 17:26
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