New emissions for kit cars consultation
Discussion
I've been looking to see how this and kit cars in general would be treated by Kahn's ULEZ and couldn't find much. There is a comment on the Bennets site that the ANPR probably will not cope with Q plates, but nothing definitive. It would be interesting to know if kits will be all treated as non-compliant or exempt.
Equus said:
It will be interesting to see how this one pans out, given that there will now be fundamental conflict between our IVA and EU requirements.
Who do we think will win Nissan, Toyota, JLR, et al, or kit car builders?
As I understand it, there is no conflict at all. The EU requires that all vehicles are tested & approved & publishes standards for TYPE APPROVAL. The UK government kindly gave us a get-out-of-jail-free card by introducing SINGLE VRHICLE APPROVAL & later, INDIVIDUAL VEHICLE APPROVAL, so all vehicles on the road are tested & approved, so EU compliant.Who do we think will win Nissan, Toyota, JLR, et al, or kit car builders?
Emissions regs are no different in this respect to crash testing, kits are not expected to be crash tested, but are expected to be safe within reasonable bounds. Will the major players complain at lower emissions standards for kit? I'd say it's considerably less likely than them complaining about lower safety standards for kits.
Fury1630 said:
As I understand it, there is no conflict at all. The EU requires that all vehicles are tested & approved & publishes standards for TYPE APPROVAL. The UK government kindly gave us a get-out-of-jail-free card by introducing SINGLE VEHICLE APPROVAL & later, INDIVIDUAL VEHICLE APPROVAL, so all vehicles on the road are tested & approved, so EU compliant.
But (just in case you had not noticed!) we shortly will no longer be a Member State of the EU. The EU Directives around which IVA was a get-out-of-jail-free card are based on powers assigned to member states.
For example (since it's emissions we're talking about), have a look at EU Directive 88/77/EEC.
The phrase you're looking for is: "Whereas those requirements differ from one Member State to another; whereas these differences could restrict the free circulation of the products in question..."
In plain English, Member States get to set their own emissions regimes. They are obliged for the purposes of free trade to accept the emissions regime of any other member state, BUT we only get to set our own rules for as long as we're a member state.
Don't quite see where you're going with this - the SVA/IVA has always been a National test, it has never had any bearing on whether you can register a car in the EU. You get issued with a V5 & the car can then be sold on in the same way as any other - but only in the UK, as soon as you want to register anywhere else in EU it would have to meet their testing regime - this has always been the case.
How does the legislation mentioned affect that? & if we're no longer a member state then the EU has no jurisdiction over here. Are you seriously suggesting we would be stopped from driving our kitcars abroad or what exactly
I really can't see any major manufacturer being in the slightest bit interested in what the kitcar industry is allowed to do providing you're not copying one of their designs of course!
How does the legislation mentioned affect that? & if we're no longer a member state then the EU has no jurisdiction over here. Are you seriously suggesting we would be stopped from driving our kitcars abroad or what exactly
I really can't see any major manufacturer being in the slightest bit interested in what the kitcar industry is allowed to do providing you're not copying one of their designs of course!
RussBost said:
Are you seriously suggesting we would be stopped from driving our kitcars abroad
Yes, potentially.If you look at the BBC News website this morning, you'll see that there's a not dissimilar discussion going on about pet passports; the suggestion being that once we are outside the EU, we might be back to the old 6-month quarantine arrangements.
Incidentally, the potential implications for the wider motor industry in the UK could be a lot worse, which is why the recent consultation asked whether we should remain aligned with EU legislation: if part of our system (IVA) is out of step with EU Type Approval (ie. Full, LVTA and WVTA), Brussels might decide that no cars registered in the UK can be 'trusted' to be compliant with EU requirements. That would be completely unconscionable, of course, and would see the end of IVA instantly.
I'm not going anywhere with it, though: I'm merely observing that there are some blatantly obvious legislative conflicts to be resolved, and it will be interesting to see how they pan out.
"Yes, potentially." - Really??? & obviously the media have never been known to scaremonger for a bit of a story (the pet passports thing) - so every single car that goes over to France, Holland or wherever would have to have it's V5 inspected on arrival to see if it's type approved or has had an IVA - after all, not all kitcars look like kitcars, at least to the uninitiated, would a customs bloke know the difference between an Aristocrat & a genuine Jag, or even something like a TVR or Lotus & a Fury or similar, how about an Ultima & a Noble, or a type approved Caterham or Westfield & any of the myriads of copies ............. Get real!
I don't see the EU shooting themselves in the foot & effectively banning tourism by car (just as they won't ban pet passports for similar reasons), when we finally get to Brexit (around 2040 at the current progress!) I think you'll find things will look remarkably similar to the way they do now, fortunately we don't have an equivalent of Trump over there to happily blow his foot to smithereens
If you genuinely believe the EU would attempt to ban existing UK kitcars from travelling abroad you really do live in cloud cuckoo land!
I don't see the EU shooting themselves in the foot & effectively banning tourism by car (just as they won't ban pet passports for similar reasons), when we finally get to Brexit (around 2040 at the current progress!) I think you'll find things will look remarkably similar to the way they do now, fortunately we don't have an equivalent of Trump over there to happily blow his foot to smithereens
If you genuinely believe the EU would attempt to ban existing UK kitcars from travelling abroad you really do live in cloud cuckoo land!
RussBost said:
...fortunately we don't have an equivalent of Trump over there to happily blow his foot to smithereens.
You're really not keeping up with events, I'm afraid, old bean.A 'no deal' Brexit is looking like an increasingly likely possibility.
I don't think you have any concept of what a monumental clusterf
k that would be. If you really believe that anybody will be giving the slightest consideration to a handful of eccentrics in home-built cars, if that happens, then you're the one living in cloud cuckoo land.
Fastpedeller said:
Don't feed the troll! 
That is rather uncalled for, he might be on the pessimistic and pragmatic side, however given his experience with the built environment and innovative systems I suspect he has plenty of experience with legislation ignoring the minority options.
Ellio8 said:
Now that Brexit is'over' is there any clarity on this?
Not yet, no.I expect we'll have to wait until the dust has settled, then see how the 'level playing field' clauses in the agreement are applicable in respect of environmental and regulatory standards. Supposedly, we're not allowed to do anything that could give our companies a commercial edge over their competitors in Europe, and conceivably IVA/LVTA could fall foul of this.
the EC's guidelines for Brexit negotiations said:
...any free trade agreement … must ensure a level playing field, notably in terms of competition and state aid, and in this regard encompass safeguards against unfair competitive advantages through, inter alia, tax, social, environmental and regulatory measures and practices... including environmental standards, labour and social standards, technical regulations and standards, and state aid control.
(my bold)We'll have to see how that's found its way through to the Brexit agreement.
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