Whats happened to the Kit car world in the past 8 years?
Discussion
There is also a new 904 gts maker, maild him, he said they are not that long working on that, but they have already orders for 7 cars.
they come with space chassis and use boxster parts, so engine/box etc, they use the mold from a original car and weight is about 900 kg
they have more models, but the latest one the 904 is not yet online here, but they had a ad on classiccars.
this company you also see price lists there, not yet for their new kid though > http://www.rhmotor.com/index.html
they come with space chassis and use boxster parts, so engine/box etc, they use the mold from a original car and weight is about 900 kg
they have more models, but the latest one the 904 is not yet online here, but they had a ad on classiccars.
this company you also see price lists there, not yet for their new kid though > http://www.rhmotor.com/index.html
Wanted to get an idea of production figures for some of the most well known kit cars, so I had a look around. Look away now if easily bored.
Various people have reported, that as of about 2003, approx 500 Strikers had been sold and 600 Furys. To put some perspective on that, Caterham sold over 600 in 2016 alone, and have sold some thousands over the years. (Admittedly, that includes factory built cars, but most owners eventually end up rebuilding them to maintain the chassis against rust, so perhaps it still counts as a kit car). Nobody seems to have any idea how many Strikers and Furys have been built since that date (2003), but I believe it's generally reckoned to have tailed off sharply after that? Striker was built from 1986, and Fury 1991.
Westfield's wikipedia page says, 'According to figures given to the magazine Total Kit Car, Westfield produces about 450 SEi and XTR chassis each year'. Whether that info's up to date or not, I couldn't say.
Robin Hood grabbed the headlines for a while. Kit Car magazine claimed that, in 2005, RH sold 700 units, the alleged annual record sales for a kit car. However, the Wikipedia page for RH claims that, 'During 1996 and 1997 sales of Robin Hoods peaked at over 500 kits per year'. I wonder who's telling the truth there. More to the point, how many of those pile em high, sell em cheap Robin Hoods ever actually turned a wheel on road or track? Hmm
Perhaps this was about the time when the kit car movement found out the hard way that tinkering skills were dying out, and more and more people made a beeline for easy builds and mainly new parts.
Spartan was another major operator, from 1973-95. They made a 2+2 Convertible, a jeep, an estate car and even a six wheeled Cortina based motorhome. Their Wikipedia page says 4000 units sold, although some went abroad. I have a sneaky suspicion some of these may have given up their identities, illegally, to builders of newer kit cars/locosts wanting to avoid the IVA test. But that's another subject for another thread!
And, of course, Dutton. Rumoured to have been the world's biggest kit car manufacturer, its Wikipedia page says, 'By 1984, 80 people were employed spread over four factories and a large showroom in Worthing – production topped 1,000 a year', contradicting much of the above info! Again, there may be some identity theft issues among unscrupulous builders of more recent kit cars, using the V5C, number plate and chassis number from a Dutton. Due to the bespoke and individual nature of many kit cars, this is a difficult one for the DVLA to prove.
Also worth a mention is the Mini Marcos, which apparently sold over 1300 units until 1995, with some going abroad.
Probably missed a few, but I think that's the main highlights. What's obvious is, the crowd has been thinned out somewhat, while sales of the Caterham Seven have actually increased. And I will add that I've read numerous threads over the last ten years or so, where some builders of Robin Hoods and Locosts have admitted to eventually spending near enough the money a good second hand Caterham would cost to buy. Fingers burnt and lessons learned.
Various people have reported, that as of about 2003, approx 500 Strikers had been sold and 600 Furys. To put some perspective on that, Caterham sold over 600 in 2016 alone, and have sold some thousands over the years. (Admittedly, that includes factory built cars, but most owners eventually end up rebuilding them to maintain the chassis against rust, so perhaps it still counts as a kit car). Nobody seems to have any idea how many Strikers and Furys have been built since that date (2003), but I believe it's generally reckoned to have tailed off sharply after that? Striker was built from 1986, and Fury 1991.
Westfield's wikipedia page says, 'According to figures given to the magazine Total Kit Car, Westfield produces about 450 SEi and XTR chassis each year'. Whether that info's up to date or not, I couldn't say.
Robin Hood grabbed the headlines for a while. Kit Car magazine claimed that, in 2005, RH sold 700 units, the alleged annual record sales for a kit car. However, the Wikipedia page for RH claims that, 'During 1996 and 1997 sales of Robin Hoods peaked at over 500 kits per year'. I wonder who's telling the truth there. More to the point, how many of those pile em high, sell em cheap Robin Hoods ever actually turned a wheel on road or track? Hmm
Perhaps this was about the time when the kit car movement found out the hard way that tinkering skills were dying out, and more and more people made a beeline for easy builds and mainly new parts.Spartan was another major operator, from 1973-95. They made a 2+2 Convertible, a jeep, an estate car and even a six wheeled Cortina based motorhome. Their Wikipedia page says 4000 units sold, although some went abroad. I have a sneaky suspicion some of these may have given up their identities, illegally, to builders of newer kit cars/locosts wanting to avoid the IVA test. But that's another subject for another thread!
And, of course, Dutton. Rumoured to have been the world's biggest kit car manufacturer, its Wikipedia page says, 'By 1984, 80 people were employed spread over four factories and a large showroom in Worthing – production topped 1,000 a year', contradicting much of the above info! Again, there may be some identity theft issues among unscrupulous builders of more recent kit cars, using the V5C, number plate and chassis number from a Dutton. Due to the bespoke and individual nature of many kit cars, this is a difficult one for the DVLA to prove.
Also worth a mention is the Mini Marcos, which apparently sold over 1300 units until 1995, with some going abroad.
Probably missed a few, but I think that's the main highlights. What's obvious is, the crowd has been thinned out somewhat, while sales of the Caterham Seven have actually increased. And I will add that I've read numerous threads over the last ten years or so, where some builders of Robin Hoods and Locosts have admitted to eventually spending near enough the money a good second hand Caterham would cost to buy. Fingers burnt and lessons learned.
Edited by Johnny5hoods on Sunday 5th June 13:58
Deserves acknowledgement 
Johnny5hoods said:
Robin Hood grabbed the headlines for a while. Kit Car magazine claimed that, in 2005, RH sold 700 units, the alleged annual record sales for a kit car. However, the Wikipedia page for RH claims that, 'During 1996 and 1997 sales of Robin Hoods peaked at over 500 kits per year'. I wonder who's telling the truth there. More to the point, how many of those pile em high, sell em cheap Robin Hoods ever actually turned a wheel on road or track? Hmm
Couple of friends had Robin Hoods.One was a mis-fuelled gutless wonder that couldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding, the other one was almost finished but drove - didn't go in that one.
Both now quietly rotting away in garages because unless done properly and being used for fun or track they are a useless toy that doesn't work very well. When the time comes to go anywhere they jump in the mild and reasonably priced family saloon..
When kitcars were popular cars were expensive and rusty.
Today you can literally buy quite reasonable examples of mass-made cars for less than a main dealer service or a set of tyres, and they are all finished.
Pat H said:
...
I guess that the appeal of building a kit car is the build process. Being able to construct a car completely to your own requirements.
Except that you can't. You have to work within all sorts of restrictions....
Shame.I guess that the appeal of building a kit car is the build process. Being able to construct a car completely to your own requirements.
Except that you can't. You have to work within all sorts of restrictions....
I'd modify the above slightly as -
" I guess that the appeal of building a kit car is the build process. Being able to construct a car and then to beat that BMW or Porsche from the lights and know
it's all by your hand."
Which is what I *really* enjoyed about kits.
So having to conform to modern emission regulations takes away much of that... I guess it's still doable with MegaSquirt or similar, but it sure does increase
the cost.
Here in NZ, you can't even mess with your classic car much either - almost ANY changes from original and it has to be 'recertified' which is very expensive.
I couldn't even put adjustable height shockers on my TVR Tasmin as they aren't OE ! Even 4 to 5 speed 'box !!
There's sensible, and then there's ridiculous.....
I've sold all my stuff now, and bought a boring, boring Toyota (although to be fair, it does have almost 300bhp under the bonnet, which is quite nice, with better cruise fuel economy than ANY other [petrol] car I've ever had.... the benefits of technology....)
I don't miss arguing with the tester about front wheel bearings though - "if there's play the bearings are knackered" ...
Globs said:
Couple of friends had Robin Hoods.
One was a mis-fuelled gutless wonder that couldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding, the other one was almost finished but drove - didn't go in that one.
Both now quietly rotting away in garages because being Robin Hoods, they were basically piles of crap that were a disgrace to the kit car industry.
Fixed that for you...One was a mis-fuelled gutless wonder that couldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding, the other one was almost finished but drove - didn't go in that one.
Both now quietly rotting away in garages because being Robin Hoods, they were basically piles of crap that were a disgrace to the kit car industry.
I owed a few in my youth (20 years ago)
I then moved on to 944 Turbos, Supercharged MX5s and TVR Griffith all were around the same price as kitcars.
I do fancy another now but I find it hard to justify £10k for a decent Westfield / Sylva when I can buy a £2k sports bike or a £5k MX5 Turbo / Boxster / Z4 ...
I then moved on to 944 Turbos, Supercharged MX5s and TVR Griffith all were around the same price as kitcars.
I do fancy another now but I find it hard to justify £10k for a decent Westfield / Sylva when I can buy a £2k sports bike or a £5k MX5 Turbo / Boxster / Z4 ...
It baffles me how the prolific rise in the popularity and accessibility of public track days hasn't made kit cars more popular. Surely, you'd think with their fun handling more people would want them. Caterhams have actually got more popular during this time period, and they aint cheap. And yet the others, some of which are cheaper and still handle great, have got rarer and rarer.
Have we mentioned "Plug 'N' Play" yet. I have three children who whilst not being too bad are still used to being brought up in the "Plug 'N' Play" era & thus expect fairly instant results. In my youth I would quite happily sit there watching telly whilst holding together the fuselage of an Airfix Tornado/Lancaster/Puma etc.whilst the glue dried. I was quite happy to spend hours doing this, however my children don't really fancy doing this because it takes too long and they don't get instant results.
SO we have another factor leading to the contraction of the kitcar industry.
I still fancy going part time on my proper job and having a go at doing a kit car company. I have a few ideas, though I think one of the problems in the past is the smaller kitcar companies have provided kits they wanted/liked themselves without thinking too much about if they would be attractive to the general public.
This was one of my favourite "Mad B*stard" offerings from the old kitcar industry, the Stimson Scorcher. Probably named after the fact that if it bumped into you, you burnt yourself on the exposed mini engine.
http://unusual-cars.com/model-of-the-car-stimson-s...
SO we have another factor leading to the contraction of the kitcar industry.
I still fancy going part time on my proper job and having a go at doing a kit car company. I have a few ideas, though I think one of the problems in the past is the smaller kitcar companies have provided kits they wanted/liked themselves without thinking too much about if they would be attractive to the general public.
This was one of my favourite "Mad B*stard" offerings from the old kitcar industry, the Stimson Scorcher. Probably named after the fact that if it bumped into you, you burnt yourself on the exposed mini engine.
http://unusual-cars.com/model-of-the-car-stimson-s...
I know the shape was 'somewhat angular' but I really like this for some reason......
The Hensen M30
www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcn_nN2P_9k
The Hensen M30
www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcn_nN2P_9k
Tempest_5 said:
Have we mentioned "Plug 'N' Play" yet. I have three children who whilst not being too bad are still used to being brought up in the "Plug 'N' Play" era & thus expect fairly instant results. In my youth I would quite happily sit there watching telly whilst holding together the fuselage of an Airfix Tornado/Lancaster/Puma etc.whilst the glue dried. I was quite happy to spend hours doing this, however my children don't really fancy doing this because it takes too long and they don't get instant results.
SO we have another factor leading to the contraction of the kitcar industry.
I still fancy going part time on my proper job and having a go at doing a kit car company. I have a few ideas, though I think one of the problems in the past is the smaller kitcar companies have provided kits they wanted/liked themselves without thinking too much about if they would be attractive to the general public.
This was one of my favourite "Mad B*stard" offerings from the old kitcar industry, the Stimson Scorcher. Probably named after the fact that if it bumped into you, you burnt yourself on the exposed mini engine.
http://unusual-cars.com/model-of-the-car-stimson-s...
Man, that's a funky looking thing. Cross between a quadbike, a hovercraft and a tricycle. That's what I loved most about kit cars before SVA. Designers could quite literally let the imagination run wild. Far out SO we have another factor leading to the contraction of the kitcar industry.
I still fancy going part time on my proper job and having a go at doing a kit car company. I have a few ideas, though I think one of the problems in the past is the smaller kitcar companies have provided kits they wanted/liked themselves without thinking too much about if they would be attractive to the general public.
This was one of my favourite "Mad B*stard" offerings from the old kitcar industry, the Stimson Scorcher. Probably named after the fact that if it bumped into you, you burnt yourself on the exposed mini engine.
http://unusual-cars.com/model-of-the-car-stimson-s...
http://unusual-cars.com/model-of-the-car-stimson-s...
What's interesting to see is how Westfield have branched out into other areas of the automotive world recently, i.e. the airport pod thingys.
https://westfieldavs.com/westfield-pod/
Looks odd seeing the trusty old sun logo wots on my car, polo shirt & coffee mug on something like that.
One thing that bothers me about that website is the number of other concepts they are talking about. I once worked for a company that went a bit mad doing new stuff and moved away from it's original, core business. It over expanded on new, slightly flimsy ideas and neglected to an extent the work it was founded on. It then had to shed jobs and return to it's original core business only just surviving in the process when the new stuff didn't work as well as hoped.
https://westfieldavs.com/westfield-pod/
Looks odd seeing the trusty old sun logo wots on my car, polo shirt & coffee mug on something like that.
One thing that bothers me about that website is the number of other concepts they are talking about. I once worked for a company that went a bit mad doing new stuff and moved away from it's original, core business. It over expanded on new, slightly flimsy ideas and neglected to an extent the work it was founded on. It then had to shed jobs and return to it's original core business only just surviving in the process when the new stuff didn't work as well as hoped.
Edited by Tempest_5 on Sunday 18th March 23:05
Tempest_5 said:
What's interesting to see is how Westfield have branched out into other areas of the automotive world recently, i.e. the airport pod thingys.
https://westfieldavs.com/westfield-pod/
Can you spec it with a V8 ?https://westfieldavs.com/westfield-pod/
Tempest_5 said:
I once worked for a company that went a bit mad doing new stuff and moved away from it's original, core business....
The thing is, Westfield has recognised that the writing is on the wall for their original, core business. It's a case fo diversify or die. They're also doing a lot of work on EV's.They're trying to reinvent themselves as a general engineering consultancy - not necessarily with the the intention of manufacture themselves (although obviously relatively simple products like the autonomous pod can be money spinners).
They did some of the EV work for Morgan, for example.
They (along with other companies like Caterham, Ginetta and Ariel) are also concentrating on mopping up the large government grants that are/have been available for low emissions/lighweighting technologies. It's not widely recognised that these grants have been propping up some of our specialist sports car manufacturers for a number of years, in the face of their 'core business' of manufacturing sports cars becoming increasingly unsustainable.
Unfortunately, the money ultimately came from Europe, and we've just voted to kill the goose that laid the golden eggs...
To say that there are tough times ahead for the UK specialist car industry (kit car manufacturers included) is an understatement.
They did some of the EV work for Morgan, for example.
They (along with other companies like Caterham, Ginetta and Ariel) are also concentrating on mopping up the large government grants that are/have been available for low emissions/lighweighting technologies. It's not widely recognised that these grants have been propping up some of our specialist sports car manufacturers for a number of years, in the face of their 'core business' of manufacturing sports cars becoming increasingly unsustainable.
Unfortunately, the money ultimately came from Europe, and we've just voted to kill the goose that laid the golden eggs...
To say that there are tough times ahead for the UK specialist car industry (kit car manufacturers included) is an understatement.
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