Blacktop Zetec - Can i get much more from it?

[Too Late]

Hi all

I have myself a blacktop Zetec in my weekend car, Its pushing roughtly 230bhp at the moment. I am wondering if i am reaching the bhp limits of my blackop zetec.

I was sat here thining what i would need to do to hit the 300 or 350bhp. Having a quick good old google, i could get a new blacktop zetec and turbo it and that would hit that sort of bhp. Working on mine might be counter productive since i would need to strip it down, i might as well sell it as a package to fund the new one?

Any ideas or suggestions

[Kevp]

230 BHP is a lot for a Zetec. You must already have done some serious work. This will all but be undone if you go turbo.

[pigeondave]

Jeff got 400bhp from his with a supercharger.

I'm sure there's a thread on it over at Southern kit car club (SKCC)

If you're really serious speak to Dunnell, tts-performance, or someone like that.

[Baron von Teuchter]

I know the manifolds are the wrong way round (and the box bolt pattern is different) but have you thought about a duratec? Much lighter too.

[Too Late]

Thanks all for the replies.

I did think about moving to a Duratec or a RedTop Vauxhal but to get to 300bhp will easily be 10k

Thanks for the suggestion on the zetec turbo and have register SKCC (pending admin approval)

I was quoted around 6 for a turbo or 4 for a supercharger. Having never driven a Turbo or Supercharged car i think i need to find someone which i could ride with so i can work out what i want.

[GTRene]

in what car is it fitted?

maybe you can put in such audi 5 cill turbo, Donkervoort uses those as well, Audi 2,5L R5 TFSI
but maybe to expensive such engine? but 350+ hp no problem I believe.

[Too Late]

Thanks GTRene.

It's in a Westfield. I will have a quick Google now.

NA tuning is very expensive!!

[MKnight702]

pigeondave said:

If you're really serious speak to Dunnell, tts-performance, or someone like that.

Personally, I would talk to Ian Howell at Area Six Developments / Fiesta Frenzy. His Zetec turbo engines were putting out 468bhp (IIRC) and managed to push a Mk2 Fiesta to 168mph down the straight at Bruntingthorpe. He then went on to do Duratec turbos as he wanted serious power.

Edited to say under sold it, it was 178mph.

Here's a video. Blimey!

Edited by MKnight702 on Tuesday 9th October 09:40

[Baron von Teuchter]

I think any way to get 300bhp in a westy is going to cost you. It'll be awesome though.

I've never driven a car like that with forced induction, i cant help but wonder if NA power delivery might suit it better...?

Thought about an honda F20? It';s becoming a popular choice in old BMW's and Escorts as the S2000 begins to rust away. With some breathing mods they make 250 and can "relatively" easily be supercharged for 300-350bhp (AND you get the lovely 6 speed box.) Still going to cost!

[anonymous-user]

good luck, not sure why you'd want it unless you're racing though.

witht the lack of weight I'm not sure you'd see any benefit, I can spin my rears with 180 bhp in anything but totally dry conditions.

[Too Late]

MKnight702 said:

Personally, I would talk to Ian Howell at Area Six Developments / Fiesta Frenzy. His Zetec turbo engines were putting out 468bhp (IIRC) and managed to push a Mk2 Fiesta to 168mph down the straight at Bruntingthorpe. He then went on to do Duratec turbos as he wanted serious power.

Edited to say under sold it, it was 178mph.

Here's a video. Blimey!

Edited by MKnight702 on Tuesday 9th October 09:40

I spoke to Ian a few weeks ago. Great guy and very knowledgeable.
I think I have 2 questions.
Am I worth trying to sell my current blacktop 230bhp engine with accessories and buy a new one to work on. Or strip the current black top selling all the accessories not required and then work on it

Do I go turbo or supercharger?

Thanks for all the replies

[pigeondave]

Don't forget to budget for a decent gearbox. The type9 will only last a short while. If launching the thing in anger.

[Nigel_O]

I have a Zetec Westfield with about 170bhp. I also have a 2-litre 5-pot Fiat Coupe with about 480bhp. There is no way I would want the Coupe engine in the Westie - the power delivery would be all wrong.

Huge fun in a straight line though (the Coupe will do about 150 in a kilometre from a standing start, so probably similar to your mate’s Fiesta down Bruntingthorpe)

However, to get serious bhp from a small capacity turbo lump is always going to have the power coming in with a thump - not really suited to a kit car in my opinion

[GTRene]

Too Late said:

Thanks GTRene.

It's in a Westfield. I will have a quick Google now.

NA tuning is very expensive!!

those use that engine, 340 basis and 380 for the faster cars, but also 400+
and you having a westfield is almost the same, see the other donkervoorts, they started as the 'better' Lotus 7 makers.

http://www.donkervoort.com/nl/cars/donkervoort-d8-...

or go crazy ;-)

Edited by GTRene on Thursday 11th October 00:11

[downsman]

No personal experience of turbo/supercharged in a Seven, but:

Supercharger- increased torque throughout rev range but increases in line with revs.

Turbo- Increased torque, but not related to engine revs only related to turbo speed, so less at very low revs, much more at 2-3000rpm in a sudden wave.

Rear wheel drive light cars will go very sideways with sudden unexpected torque increases. Caterham tried it in the 80s and said they'd never put a turbo engine in a Seven. I think supercharging is the way to go.

[nashman]

Supercharged in an MK Indy. Mapping tomorrow. Just sayin

Edited by nashman on Wednesday 17th October 23:17

[Justin S]

nashman said:

Supercharged in an MK Indy. Mapping tomorrow. Just sayin

Edited by nashman on Wednesday 17th October 23:17

Thats the route I am looking at for my Westie F20C at some point. Look up LHT Performance on youtube for lots of supercharging F20c goodness and dyno runs etc to show what they can make and be driveable.

[the_stoat]

The issue you will have is if you are running a type 9 box, which even with significant and expensive upgrades, may not last that long with forced induction.

Having spent silly money on normally aspirated tuning I would go MX5 turbo. Parts are incredibly cheap, including forged rods and pistons, and from my friends experience of running silly power in a Westfield very reliable. For example if it does grenade a gearbox it is £60 to £100 to replace versus £2k for a type 9 with upgraded internals.

The Westfield I mentioned also drives very nicely as it has been mapped to have a linear power curve as opposed to the massive torque surge most seem to end up when going turbo charged.

[jontysafe]

I have a turbo Westfield and they’re great fun. I would sell your existing package.

i’m a bit biased but have you thought about an old school cosworth YB engine and T5 gearbox?

Mine was circa 450bhp.

Rebuild verryyy slow as kids happened but will get finished. 550bhp twin scroll turbo set up, rear radiator conversion, bespoke intercooler.

[nashman]

My MK was mapped last week see here

https://youtu.be/ajD5ixhazL8

This week I’ve done over 200 miles in it. Two main reasons for the miles are

1. Build in reliability

2. Learn how to drive it! It’s very very tractable and compliant until you don’t want it to be. Then it tears your face off with relentless power from 1500rpm to the soft cut at 8320. Yes it red lines at 9000rpm but when we mapped it to that it was almost 400bhp so turned it back to 8320rpm so it is less stressed. Still 380bhp as near as damn it so for now that’s quite enough. The car weighs in at 620kg