Lamborghini Countach Question
Discussion
My gripe is against the trend for rep's of cars such as the 355 / 308 / Countach which are generally shoddiiy built and drive poorly
No argument from me on that one. Yes a poor rep is almost an insult. One of my favourite car movie lines is the Dirty Harry "They aught to hang the guy that paints a beautiful machine like that in that colour" He was talking about a lime green Countach.
I see where you're coming from and there are some kits that I have seen that I see no point in (eg the Porche 911 replica, IMHO buy an old one and strip it and do it up). If the toyota MR2 one is the one I think you're refering to (ie more a body kit rather than an actual kit car) then I agree that isn't a particulalry good kit IMHO.
It also depends on how far away from a style is a car to be original. A caterfield for example is really a replica of the Lotus 7 but the engineering, and style has been developed far beyond calling it a replica. My kit car was in a style similar to a morgan but only very loosely ie a fly winged open top roadster. It was obviously a kit car and I prefered the style of the kit to an actual Morgan. Perhaps its the "deception" bit which is the objectable part?
Its quite a hard discussion as I can certainly see your point but then again I can also see the point from a car builders enthusiast point.
To some owning the original is a pipe dream. You have to be seriously wealthy to justify a Countach esp if you have a family. But a second car thats a kit replica well thats a different story. Plus the servicing and cost of ownership is particularly important. Ceratinaly a well built kit car may actually get more respect than a rich kid who gets an original.
I always have a lot of respect for any person that builds a car. Having done it myself (and will again) I know what they have been through (and the scars to prove it
). I would also never dismiss a quality built car just because its a replica. A lot of love, sweat, tears, and laughs went into that car and peoples tastes are different. I personally do not believe it detracts the value of the original. In some ways you could say it is a compliment. An original will always be an original a replica always a replica. A well built beautiful car is always a well built beautiful car and usually there's a PHer inside it.
your going to invest nearly 20k to get a rep thats anything like.good panel fit,good chassis,good trim.
and after all that you end up with a car that looks great and goes a bit soso.
why not make something that looks a bit soso and goes great.
i know this is no help but i come from a time where q cars were the king.
the crapier you can make a car look the better it is when it screams away from exotica(corners as well)anyone can go quick on a straight.
that said i followed an f40 today through town and he was slowing down then booting it,the flames on the overrun were good to watch.
so i dont know mabey there is a niche for good looking motors after all
and after all that you end up with a car that looks great and goes a bit soso.
why not make something that looks a bit soso and goes great.
i know this is no help but i come from a time where q cars were the king.
the crapier you can make a car look the better it is when it screams away from exotica(corners as well)anyone can go quick on a straight.
that said i followed an f40 today through town and he was slowing down then booting it,the flames on the overrun were good to watch.
so i dont know mabey there is a niche for good looking motors after all
Have you considered a Renault-Alpine GTA V6 Turbo? They do close to 165mph, are full four-seaters with supercar looks, powered by an easily-serviced stock Renault engine, handle better than a 911 and can be yours for £5k-£15k. Also check out the Maserati Biturbo, Lamborghini Uracco/Sillhouette/Jalpa and Ferrari 308 GT4 (has a fibreglass bodyshell + is cheaper to look after than a Mondial.) and the Esprit S2.2 (S3 without the expense/bumpers) As for replicas, there's nothing wrong with 'em, so long as they're not overpriced for what they are. Some of the MR2 F355's are dreadful, though, especially when they get the pop-up headlights set too far back and still have stock Toyota fittings all over the show. Some older Countach rep's are OK though, and as for resale value, you can mark the price up a bit if you put it up for sale in your local car rag - non-kitcar people will be drawn to the ad if they've seen you driving around in it.
The only cars on your list that would tempt me are the GT4 and the Esprit. The GT4 is an unknown to me, but the S2 esprit is pretty much home ground. However you are very wrong to say that the S2 is just an S3 without bumpers or enxpense. The main, but by no means the only problem with the S2 is that unlike the later cars the chassis is not galvanised (galvanised chassis came as standard on the S3 onwards). The S2 was arguably the best looking Esprit, but the thought of another Lotus with a chassis that needs relacing sends shudders down my spine. As I write, the ferarri option seems to be pie in the sky as the Mondial I had been looking at has been purchased, though armed with the cam belt changing information that may be a good thing.
Interesting.
Well I too went down the Countach path in 1987. I left New Zealand in search of the most sexiest shape in automotive history. And what I found, even today is still poor workmanship, crappy panels, fit, chassis like a wet lettuce leaf, bubby engines with no power, very poor panel fit and finish. The word 'kit' is so misused here. It is no more a kit than fly to the moon! None of them. Period. If you do not posess any mechanical skills or cant tell a screwdriver from a spanner ..... !
So what did I do? I bought one of these so called bodies and bought it back to New Zealand. It was then jigged up and took 8 months to straighten the panels, and make new ones because the others were too bent, made a perfect panel fit then proceeded to make a whole new set of moulds, just for one body! Yup thats what I did. I now have panels that are ruler straight, excellent panel fit, proper return edges etc etc.
I gave up on looking at all the flexi chassis they were offering. Simple box section affairs which I would not at all trust my butt in at even 50mph !
So after producing a hand-laid body, I made a chassis the same as the original, of photograps for the car. Why the original?? because it fits, silly ! and its proven. And I done it all in round tube as well. Id like to be able to post a pikky but I'll have to see how to do it ....
I made all the suspension as well, cast the aluminium bearing carriers, made the fuel tanks, radiators even the drive axles and adaptions for the CV's. All the engine bay and front and floor is aluminuim paneled. yes its taken 14 years to do this ... in between work and girlfriends .. but I have at last a decent replica. No its not going to be indistingishable from the real thing - but there is some new century technology in it as well, its just a damn good sports car, that when you look at it, it doesnt at all look like some 'kitset thing' that everyone first says !
To do this project I had to have the tools, so purchases of a mig and tig welder, 6 months course at weld school!, folders, rollers, guilotine, gas set, lathe, drills etc etc ..... and dont forget the all important drawing board to produce working drawings for machining etc etc.
So whats powering this beast?? The worlds best engine of course ..... well it was .. its a bitza now. General Motors Chevrolet V8. But the only GMC part in it is the crankshaft. Every other part is aftermarket, so it really doesnt have a name! Oh and dont forget the 4 sidedraft webers either -
coupled to Renaults 21 Turbo 5 speeder, it all makes for a great wagon.
So for cars like this, if you want to go the 'kitset' way unless you have lots of money, lots of time, ability to learn new skills, and room to do it, dont bother. By a Vauxhall Cavallier instead.
Well I too went down the Countach path in 1987. I left New Zealand in search of the most sexiest shape in automotive history. And what I found, even today is still poor workmanship, crappy panels, fit, chassis like a wet lettuce leaf, bubby engines with no power, very poor panel fit and finish. The word 'kit' is so misused here. It is no more a kit than fly to the moon! None of them. Period. If you do not posess any mechanical skills or cant tell a screwdriver from a spanner ..... !
So what did I do? I bought one of these so called bodies and bought it back to New Zealand. It was then jigged up and took 8 months to straighten the panels, and make new ones because the others were too bent, made a perfect panel fit then proceeded to make a whole new set of moulds, just for one body! Yup thats what I did. I now have panels that are ruler straight, excellent panel fit, proper return edges etc etc.
I gave up on looking at all the flexi chassis they were offering. Simple box section affairs which I would not at all trust my butt in at even 50mph !
So after producing a hand-laid body, I made a chassis the same as the original, of photograps for the car. Why the original?? because it fits, silly ! and its proven. And I done it all in round tube as well. Id like to be able to post a pikky but I'll have to see how to do it ....
I made all the suspension as well, cast the aluminium bearing carriers, made the fuel tanks, radiators even the drive axles and adaptions for the CV's. All the engine bay and front and floor is aluminuim paneled. yes its taken 14 years to do this ... in between work and girlfriends .. but I have at last a decent replica. No its not going to be indistingishable from the real thing - but there is some new century technology in it as well, its just a damn good sports car, that when you look at it, it doesnt at all look like some 'kitset thing' that everyone first says !
To do this project I had to have the tools, so purchases of a mig and tig welder, 6 months course at weld school!, folders, rollers, guilotine, gas set, lathe, drills etc etc ..... and dont forget the all important drawing board to produce working drawings for machining etc etc.
So whats powering this beast?? The worlds best engine of course ..... well it was .. its a bitza now. General Motors Chevrolet V8. But the only GMC part in it is the crankshaft. Every other part is aftermarket, so it really doesnt have a name! Oh and dont forget the 4 sidedraft webers either -
coupled to Renaults 21 Turbo 5 speeder, it all makes for a great wagon.
So for cars like this, if you want to go the 'kitset' way unless you have lots of money, lots of time, ability to learn new skills, and room to do it, dont bother. By a Vauxhall Cavallier instead.
Well we make very sexy Lambo's here, plus F40's and another new concept you may be interested in "Saker Cars" Extreme little machines. This is something I would like for track days: www.saker.co.nz
These links are well worth looking into. Might be a bit out of your price range for a turn key, but worth considering anyway. The builder of the F40 is a good friend of my partner who is extremly clever. Check out his workmanship in this site: www.f40.co.nz
I got him to make billet alloy centre caps for my esprit, which I polished up. Just amazing.
Last but not least there is: www.countess.co.nz/
Lambo kits. Very tidy cars. But again unless you were willing to asseble everything yourself, it may fall out of your price range.
I personally own a 89 Esprit Turbo (non se), and is a lot of car for the money. Gets just as many looks as a lambo, ferrari etc. Lot cheaper to maintain too.
Cheers
KS
These links are well worth looking into. Might be a bit out of your price range for a turn key, but worth considering anyway. The builder of the F40 is a good friend of my partner who is extremly clever. Check out his workmanship in this site: www.f40.co.nz
I got him to make billet alloy centre caps for my esprit, which I polished up. Just amazing.
Last but not least there is: www.countess.co.nz/
Lambo kits. Very tidy cars. But again unless you were willing to asseble everything yourself, it may fall out of your price range.
I personally own a 89 Esprit Turbo (non se), and is a lot of car for the money. Gets just as many looks as a lambo, ferrari etc. Lot cheaper to maintain too.
Cheers
KS
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