RE: Caterhams banned from 'Ring
Discussion
LRdriver said: ze problem is zat it iz not german.
Ve hate ze fact zat it iz TOOO schnell...
Had zis invention been german, ve vould haf permitted it, ja?
dumkopf
Iz not ze problem zat it iz not a german car but zat it haz open wheels (oh, sorry... wheelz). The ADAC (that'z ze organizer of ze 24 hourz) changed ze rulez last year in so far that cars with open wheelz are not allowed any more. Ze same appliez to ze Donkervoorts btw. Zat makez zenze if you conzider ze rather narrow circuit and ze hefty traffic. Still, iz a shame... ze crowdz love ze Caterhams.
hansgerd said:
LRdriver said: ze problem is zat it iz not german.
Ve hate ze fact zat it iz TOOO schnell...
Had zis invention been german, ve vould haf permitted it, ja?
dumkopf
Iz not ze problem zat it iz not a german car but zat it haz open wheels (oh, sorry... wheelz). The ADAC (that'z ze organizer of ze 24 hourz) changed ze rulez last year in so far that cars with open wheelz are not allowed any more. Ze same appliez to ze Donkervoorts btw. Zat makez zenze if you conzider ze rather narrow circuit and ze hefty traffic. Still, iz a shame... ze crowdz love ze Caterhams.
Touché 
Very odd, certainly.
However, despite all this talk of the bug eyed ones' (undoubtedly) fine track uber track schnellerism, there was a test in one of the mags recently, in which a Radical SR3 (surely much more accomplished than even the mighty end of Westerhamdom?), a Westfield whatsit and a silly 996 from one of the well known German performance houses, did battle round the 'scleif.
The fat pig won (just).
Ultimately, the awesome agility and nimbleness of the lightweights must reign supreme through twisties but Walter Rhorl and Co hardly dawdle when they do set 'Ring records...usually in GT2s and the like.
But if you acknowledge their might not be that much in it between mega wheelmen in said twisties, you certainly can't argue with the differentials in outright, high end speed which, I would have thought, guaranteed Alois Ruf and his ilk, continuing mastery.
For mere mortals, however, then I can see where huge differences might be apparent and round Croft or Hethel, it's be bye-bye leiderhosen boy.
Er, I think!
But it probably is a Nazi conspiracy anyway.
However, despite all this talk of the bug eyed ones' (undoubtedly) fine track uber track schnellerism, there was a test in one of the mags recently, in which a Radical SR3 (surely much more accomplished than even the mighty end of Westerhamdom?), a Westfield whatsit and a silly 996 from one of the well known German performance houses, did battle round the 'scleif.
The fat pig won (just).
Ultimately, the awesome agility and nimbleness of the lightweights must reign supreme through twisties but Walter Rhorl and Co hardly dawdle when they do set 'Ring records...usually in GT2s and the like.
But if you acknowledge their might not be that much in it between mega wheelmen in said twisties, you certainly can't argue with the differentials in outright, high end speed which, I would have thought, guaranteed Alois Ruf and his ilk, continuing mastery.
For mere mortals, however, then I can see where huge differences might be apparent and round Croft or Hethel, it's be bye-bye leiderhosen boy.
Er, I think!
But it probably is a Nazi conspiracy anyway.
Very much aimed at Caterhams. Apparently many of the big manufacturers were laughing when they saw the Caterham starting at the ring. They really weren't when their cars blew up or crashed!
They used to use the slogan "Too fast to race" now oh so true. ADAC tried to claim that it was due to traffic and speed differential. But I don't see the Focus ST170 being banned that competed last year (much slower).
Its all due to manufacturer pressure as far as I can see. I think some of the 911's were being left behind by the Superlight.
BTW a tuned Elise would probably not cut it at the 24 hour race to the same extent as a 7. There was an Elise in the class which was 5th behind a 1.4 Caterham that was privatel entered.
They used to use the slogan "Too fast to race" now oh so true. ADAC tried to claim that it was due to traffic and speed differential. But I don't see the Focus ST170 being banned that competed last year (much slower).
Its all due to manufacturer pressure as far as I can see. I think some of the 911's were being left behind by the Superlight.
BTW a tuned Elise would probably not cut it at the 24 hour race to the same extent as a 7. There was an Elise in the class which was 5th behind a 1.4 Caterham that was privatel entered.
It probably has something to do with the ammount of money that the premium brands pump into events like this. They have all the say, and no-one disagrees because they don't get paid. The premium brands probably don't like the fact that 'cheap' cars like the caterham are so effective against their super-expensive cars. They are probably worried what their consumers will think. IMHO
mmm, I can see the safety concern thing.. however, if the article I remember is correct, don't some equally slow hatchbacks and so forth race too? Mini's etc? And while I appreciate the Viper/Caterham collision problem, I think it's more the Viper's fault than the caterham tell the truth. It's like saying it's a hatchback driver's problem an SUV slams into it and crushes it.
What next, banning Focuses on the road because Lorry drivers share the roads too? Oi. The drivers in caterhams know the risks and the race they enter. Maybe ask them politely to have visable reflective blue strips or some dull yellow lights on the rollbar to just give a bit more warning...
What next, banning Focuses on the road because Lorry drivers share the roads too? Oi. The drivers in caterhams know the risks and the race they enter. Maybe ask them politely to have visable reflective blue strips or some dull yellow lights on the rollbar to just give a bit more warning...
Safety my a
se . The Caterham that took part in last year's race surprised everyone in finishing the race - but this speed differential thing is relevant but by no means an isolated case - How many times have I witnessed sports prototypes tagging slower cars at Le Mans?..the ACO still allows multi class racing there - without that, a McLaren wouldn't have won at La Sarthe in 1995...
Let's face it, racing drivers are expected to be skilled enough to handle the car and overtake others - OK that's not strictly true - F1 is the exception of course.....
And I agree with the elegant prose (as ever) of Mr Derestrictor - even an R500 (the Caterham at last year's race was an R400 engined example) is at least 10 seconds behind a standard GT car round the 'ring - so no chance it's going to ever win a race, so do we really believe there's been any pressure brought to bear by any of the other manufacturers?
se . The Caterham that took part in last year's race surprised everyone in finishing the race - but this speed differential thing is relevant but by no means an isolated case - How many times have I witnessed sports prototypes tagging slower cars at Le Mans?..the ACO still allows multi class racing there - without that, a McLaren wouldn't have won at La Sarthe in 1995... Let's face it, racing drivers are expected to be skilled enough to handle the car and overtake others - OK that's not strictly true - F1 is the exception of course.....
And I agree with the elegant prose (as ever) of Mr Derestrictor - even an R500 (the Caterham at last year's race was an R400 engined example) is at least 10 seconds behind a standard GT car round the 'ring - so no chance it's going to ever win a race, so do we really believe there's been any pressure brought to bear by any of the other manufacturers?
It's got sod all to do with Caterhams winning, it is a safety matter, Caterhams are fine in isolation or together but not when run with heavier cars, look at the level of protection a Caterham affords and then compare it to a saloon or a GT, sobering. Its not a question of speed differential per say, imagine what happens when someone spins a 7 then gets T-boned by something weighing twice as much. Every year I raced at the 24hrs (5 times) someone was really badly hurt and in one case a guy died, the race is right on the edge of what people will accept in this day and age(unfortunately) and I think they are just trying to avoid a potential problem.
But Nils, Caterhams race in the UK against heavier cars in lots of classes and ironically perhaps, I'm not aware of any recent fatalities in those classes - ironic because there have been some fatalities in the past in exclusively Caterham racing, albeit not recently, I believe. But I do take your point - even with the side ipact bar and full cage mandated by the FIA , a Caterham still isn't gonig to offer the level of protection a tintop might in a side impact - but having said that I guess you know how Kieth Odor died?...and he was driving a Nissan Primera (ISTR) which is a pretty substantial car....
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