Stoneleigh 2007
Discussion
And very nice it is too! Mr2Mike said:
jonty99 said:
Its the AutoSpeciali Valeno
Its on a space frame chassis but uses an MR2 donor. Looks nice though as you say. Got an XJ220 sort of thing about it. Spoke to the bloke running the company and said it was a prototype for some rich bloke that never actually got finished apart from one prototype, then the moulds were bought by auto speciali and they developed the chassis etc.
Its on a space frame chassis but uses an MR2 donor. Looks nice though as you say. Got an XJ220 sort of thing about it. Spoke to the bloke running the company and said it was a prototype for some rich bloke that never actually got finished apart from one prototype, then the moulds were bought by auto speciali and they developed the chassis etc.
And a fairly poor looking design it is IMO. Then again, that has a longitudinal engine and Porsche transaxle so maybe the chassis is very different on the current car.
Edited by Mr2Mike on Monday 7th May 17:27
That chassis is a great illustration that the word spaceframe gets very, very badly misused on occasion.
I approached that car with some interest, some of the styling perhaps a bit questionable in my eyes (no front air intakes - looks very characterless at the front to me) and couldn't believe the chassis sitting alongside it was finished.
Would not get in that car, ever, ever, ever.
Which was the car in white gelcoat just along from spire sports cars? I'd have taken a picture but I daren't look at it too long in case my fingers took control and stabbed my eyes out rather than regard it any longer
The usual stalwarts were worth seeing - Ultimas looking nearly right but not quite as ever; GT40 and T70 replicas pushing all the buttons except 'affordable'; GTM Libra is lovely although their stand didn't help them this year; Hawk's Stratos reps look ace; black Dax Rush was gorgeous and remains the only Seven clone I really yearn for; Parallel Designs' Miura looks promising but seems to have been in that state for ever already; Westfield's new take on the Seven was patchy but overall probably about time; I liked the Stingray R1ot in the flesh but remain unconvinced as a trackday car - chain drive and open wheels; I still can't get over the styling of the Minotaur but someone must like them...
Lots and lots of stuff I just walked past I'm afraid.
Saw Stig Mills getting his ear bent by an opinionated old fella telling him his MEV Rocket suspension geometry could be better. Been there, commiserations, my experience is they'll chat for 3 hours but never ever buy a kit. Hope he didn't annoy unduly. Well done getting the car there.
Lastly the SDR VStorm was a disappointment - looked insanely heavy, overlarge, and cumbersome.
Actually I didn't find anything that suited my needs. I must be very fussy indeed.
It's a Raffo Belva, which does date back 10 years or so and came from Southport. Prototype had a Vauxhall 16V but production versions used Ford Zetec.
[/quote]
Thanks, i did, i found this thread too
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=30&t=82557&i=20
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=30&t=221065
www.premierkitcars.com/raffo.php
www.madabout-kitcars.com/126/126picgallery.htm
I reckon its a nice little curiosity alternative motor, almost pretty, short and volumptuous, a bit like me gf. Nicest in blue. dunno if you can see out of the reflecting windscreen at that angle tho.
Very collectable and a brilliant effort by Mr Raffo.
[/quote]
Thanks, i did, i found this thread too
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=30&t=82557&i=20
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=30&t=221065
www.premierkitcars.com/raffo.php
www.madabout-kitcars.com/126/126picgallery.htm
I reckon its a nice little curiosity alternative motor, almost pretty, short and volumptuous, a bit like me gf. Nicest in blue. dunno if you can see out of the reflecting windscreen at that angle tho.
Very collectable and a brilliant effort by Mr Raffo.
bencollins said:
It's a Raffo Belva, which does date back 10 years or so and came from Southport. Prototype had a Vauxhall 16V but production versions used Ford Zetec.
Thanks, i did, i found this thread too
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=30&t=82557&i=20
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=30&t=221065
www.premierkitcars.com/raffo.php
www.madabout-kitcars.com/126/126picgallery.htm
I reckon its a nice little curiosity alternative motor, almost pretty, short and volumptuous, a bit like me gf. Nicest in blue. dunno if you can see out of the reflecting windscreen at that angle tho.
Very collectable and a brilliant effort by Mr Raffo.[/quote]
The Belva is one of the best looking kitcars IMHO, and the car is manufactured now by Harlequin Autokits.
piscestattoo said:
Come now FNG, there's no need to sugar coat it for us, just say it how you mean it will you?
Yeah I just read my post back and even some of the good bits, I had sharp things to say about...
OK here's some more (positive) reaction:
- there was a RS200 replica based on an Impreza floorpan that I really liked despite myself - the purist in me wanting it to be mid-engined and spaceframed but the realist saying this will handle damn well anyway, and look completely amazing
- the same guy had a GRP bodyshell of a '69 Mustang GT350 "Eleanor" which is a lovely shape and would make a great drag racer
- there were two rally-liveried Stratos replicas outside that looked even better than the Alitalia-liveried car on Hawk's stand
- next to those was a black 06 plate GT40 that I'd cheerfully have killed for, if only I could fit in them
- I still love the Adrenaline Murtaya, that's a very nice all-rounder
- some mentalist had a tuned UVA Fugitive in the for sale hall which reckoned to do 11s quarters, and sounded brilliant - I want one but with a 4.2 40v V8 from an Audi S8 please
- the nicest Sylva Striker Mk2 I've ever seen was also in that hall and a bargain at £8750ono - carbon side panels and front arches, painted met grey, frenched rear lights - absolutely gorgeous
- Caterham's autotest setup was getting loads of attention and there were some scared people in the passenger seat! Good fun though and proof that a LSD is essential fitment for max hooligan points
- the Z-cars Minis are really nicely made although not my bag. But a good example to some of the industry where they should be raising the bar to
- you can now get a complete GT40 or T70 replica kit from Race Car Replicas for $44k which is excellent value when you see its bare bones. An exact replica of the original monocoque and with billet aluminium uprights and wishbones, it looked lovely and authentic and the build quality was sublime - although it'd be a nightmare to keep clean!
- was interesting to see the Westfield XI and ERA30, again neither my bag but great to see some different designs making it onto the market, even if they are replicas of old classics
I missed the Lancia 037 replica which I was gutted about, then again I love that red demo car so maybe it's just as well. Stayed away from the GTM owners area for the same reason - can't be held responsible for my own actions.
Also would have liked to compare the STM Phoenix, Fisher Fury and SSC Stylus, and seen the Onyx Mongoose in the flesh. Hopefully they'll be at other shows this year? Together?
Lastly there seemed to be far too many Sevens. I know they're a mainstay of the industry but wherever you look there seemed to be more than one!
Then consider that Fisher, Stuart Taylor, MNR, Mac#1, Luego, F27 and GTS weren't there in an official capacity and it seems incredible there are so many still trading.
Not as many Cobra replicas as I was expecting. A sign of the times? Seemed there was very little in the midrange price bracket really. Sub-£10k builds or £35k builds seem to be the order of the day, very little in between. Has it always been thus?
I think I have some pics of a few of them, will edit in a sec I agree about the Cobras, last year there were a lot more around. Maybe the thought of rain had scared a fair few off, or they were going today..? I only went yesterday so I dont know
There were a few manufacturers missing that I would have liked to see; Avelle was one of them
*Edited for pictures, and also to comment.
Notice how a lot of exhibitors (ie manufacturers) were displaying vehicled that their owners clubs werent displaying on their stands? It strikes me as odd that some manufacturers will continue dev on something that their existing base isnt buying, maybe to attract new blood etc, but it seemed a bit strange
Anyway, more pictures...:
Edited by piscestattoo on Monday 7th May 22:06
FNG said:
Mr2Mike said:
jonty99 said:
Its the AutoSpeciali Valeno
And a fairly poor looking design it is IMO. Then again, that has a longitudinal engine and Porsche transaxle so maybe the chassis is very different on the current car.
Edited by Mr2Mike on Monday 7th May 17:27
That chassis is a great illustration that the word spaceframe gets very, very badly misused on occasion.
Would not get in that car, ever, ever, ever.
Well I've driven it and I'm still alive so maybe it's not as bad as you think.
I've also described the chassis as a spaceframe because it certainly ain't a ladderframe, a backbone or a monocoque. Anyway, the chassis is only half the story - there's a roll cage built into the bodyshell. Rather like it myself and much rather use an old MR2 to make a Veleno than a pretend F355.
sook said:
Did anyone get any pics of the gas turbine powered Dax?
Yes, will post tomorrow.
That was Ray and David in the Cobra going past, we were in the black mazda MX-5 just behind (and out of shot unfortunately!) Saw you taking the photo.
Edited by thewave on Tuesday 8th May 11:04
Edited by thewave on Tuesday 8th May 12:08
FNG said:
Mr2Mike said:
jonty99 said:
Its the AutoSpeciali Valeno
Its on a space frame chassis but uses an MR2 donor. Looks nice though as you say. Got an XJ220 sort of thing about it. Spoke to the bloke running the company and said it was a prototype for some rich bloke that never actually got finished apart from one prototype, then the moulds were bought by auto speciali and they developed the chassis etc.
Its on a space frame chassis but uses an MR2 donor. Looks nice though as you say. Got an XJ220 sort of thing about it. Spoke to the bloke running the company and said it was a prototype for some rich bloke that never actually got finished apart from one prototype, then the moulds were bought by auto speciali and they developed the chassis etc.
And a fairly poor looking design it is IMO. Then again, that has a longitudinal engine and Porsche transaxle so maybe the chassis is very different on the current car.
Edited by Mr2Mike on Monday 7th May 17:27
That chassis is a great illustration that the word spaceframe gets very, very badly misused on occasion.
I approached that car with some interest, some of the styling perhaps a bit questionable in my eyes (no front air intakes - looks very characterless at the front to me) and couldn't believe the chassis sitting alongside it was finished.
Would not get in that car, ever, ever, ever.
The car was designed by Martin Slater of Lyncar Engineering originally, it was a one-off for US basketball player Wilt Chamberlain. The original had a beautiful, delicate aluminium spaceframe chassis befitting of Martin's history at McLaren and Lola and then as a designer and constructor of cars which won several Formula Atlantic championships, competed at LeMans and even an entry into the 1974 British Grand Prix. The chassis on show at Stoneleigh was nothing like the one Martin designed, and frankly I was disgusted.
I know all this because I am Martin's ex son-in-law.
Martin co-designed and built the car (eventually called 'Searcher One') in the early 1990s as a commission for Chamberlain. He and special effects designer Peter Bohanna took Martin's LeMans chassis and re-designed the passenger compartment to accommodate Chamberlain (who was over 7' tall) and a passenger, and under duress he designed it to take a GM big block V8 (he wanted to use a turbocharged V6 to save weight). They undertook wind tunnel testing to refine the shape and shipped the engineless car to the US for completion and track testing. Martin retained the plans to the chassis and the moulds for the bodywork at his smallholding in Berkshire for years, it was odd seeing the car at Stoneleigh as I'd only ever seen the moulds sitting outside his workshop.
The chap who bought the design off him appears to have junked the spaceframe in preference of a few tubes and some sealing wax. As I said earlier, I was appalled at what the vendor has done to such a unique and historic car.
This Link has some pictures of the original car.
Mark Benson said:
The chap who bought the design off him appears to have junked the spaceframe in preference of a few tubes and some sealing wax. As I said earlier, I was appalled at what the vendor has done to such a unique and historic car.
Interesting info Mark. I remember it as the Lyncar when the styling buck was shown at Stoneleigh all those years ago. When the project's current owner bought it, it still had the aluminium chassis (which I think was actually monocoque rather than spaceframe) which he sold on.
The reason for the new steel spaceframe is that it's simply a more practical proposition for a road going kit car - which is why many GT40 replicas use them instead of authentic rivetted ally monocoques.
You might be appalled by what the new owner has done to the car, but I think he deserves credit for finally turning the concept into a production reality. OK, the end result isn't as sophisticated as the original, but then it's a damn sight cheaper and designed so that people like us can build one at home.
OK Graham, maybe appalled is too strong a word, but the chassis I saw yesterday didn't look like it would offer any torsional rigidity at the rear even with the relatively weedy Toyota 4 pot installed, never mind anything with more torque while front end crash protection looked woeful, simply welding two chassis tubes together to offer a stiffer front section when the occupant's legs are so close to the front of the car doesn't fill me with confidence....
And you're sort of correct, the chassis was part monocoque, part spaceframe. Like many cars of it's era, Martin used aluminium tub sections for the occupants and a rear spaceframe IIRC (I saw so many race car chassis at the workshop, sometimes I lose track of what was what, and the plans I saw were sectional) - I got a bit carried away in my original post and missed some detail I admit....
But I think this is an opportunity missed - yes, the likes of you and I can afford to build a car that looks like a supercar, but in my mind it's akin to clothing an MR2 in a 355 body, underneath it's just not a supercar. I can see how the chassis Martin designed would be impractical to manufacture cheaply (he used to look after my Locost racer, I know how exacting he is and how long even simple jobs take, he wants to re-engineer everything to such a high standard, I often wondered if I would get the car back for the next race) but I feel this incarnation represents an opportunity sorely missed, regardless of the merit or otherwise of the chassis chosen. Why junk all that engineering for the sake of expediency and a nice shape?
And you're sort of correct, the chassis was part monocoque, part spaceframe. Like many cars of it's era, Martin used aluminium tub sections for the occupants and a rear spaceframe IIRC (I saw so many race car chassis at the workshop, sometimes I lose track of what was what, and the plans I saw were sectional) - I got a bit carried away in my original post and missed some detail I admit....
But I think this is an opportunity missed - yes, the likes of you and I can afford to build a car that looks like a supercar, but in my mind it's akin to clothing an MR2 in a 355 body, underneath it's just not a supercar. I can see how the chassis Martin designed would be impractical to manufacture cheaply (he used to look after my Locost racer, I know how exacting he is and how long even simple jobs take, he wants to re-engineer everything to such a high standard, I often wondered if I would get the car back for the next race) but I feel this incarnation represents an opportunity sorely missed, regardless of the merit or otherwise of the chassis chosen. Why junk all that engineering for the sake of expediency and a nice shape?
Gassing Station | Kit Cars | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff