KITCAR DESIGN sketches/concepts year 2008-10

[fuoriserie]

I was looking for a different design concept to consider, and thought of a modern dune Buggy, maybe using a FWD engine just like the Stimsondesign prototype, using a Ford fiesta platform , see pictures .

Or maybe a modern mid-engine design, just like the lotus 340 R......

Are Dune Buggies still appealing in the modern kitcar world ? what do you all think ?

[

Edited by fuoriserie on Tuesday 19th June 14:30

[Davi]

fuoriserie said:

Are Dune Buggies still appealing in the modern kitcar world ? what do you all think ?

I've had a dune buggy (sand rail) and a beach buggy - both of the VW base type. I'd most definitely have another, but only as a weekend fun car, and it most certainly would look NOTHING like that thing in your pics - for such a simple car they are very easy to make look very, very wrong.

The latest offerings from Doon are close, but not quite right IMO.

Edited by Davi on Tuesday 19th June 15:15

[fuoriserie]

Davi said:

fuoriserie said:

Are Dune Buggies still appealing in the modern kitcar world ? what do you all think ?

I've had a dune buggy (sand rail) and a beach buggy - both of the VW base type. I'd most definitely have another, but only as a weekend fun car, and it most certainly would look NOTHING like that thing in your pics - for such a simple car they are very easy to make look very, very wrong.

The latest offerings from Doon are close, but not quite right IMO.

Edited by Davi on Tuesday 19th June 15:15

I've always liked buggies, and wouldn't mind having a modern dune buggy today, having missed it in the 60's, because i was too young,...

Mid-engine or rear engine ?, I think that if you still keep the old setup, you could have a 4 seater, or a 2+2, as with the mid-engine it would be a 2 seater..

The Doon is a very interesting design, and don't mind the design of the FUBAR Hoppa, the design looks really unique........

http://www.fubarfactory.com/latest.php

Edited by fuoriserie on Tuesday 19th June 15:53

[Davi]

fuoriserie said:

I've always liked buggies, and wouldn't mind having a modern dune buggy today, having missed it in the 60's, because i was too young,...

Mid-engine or rear engine ?, I think that if you still keep the old setup, you could have a 4 seater, or a 2+2, as with the mid-engine it would be a 2 seater..

The Doon is a very interesting design, and don't mind the design of the FUBAR Hoppa, the design looks really unique........

cheeky git. I'll have you know I missed it the first time round as well - just happened to find a few while in the VW scene a few years ago (well ok, a decade ago)

Mid or Rear engined... 4 seater buggies look wrong to me, they need to be short and stumpy, which kind of also leans towards rear engined. The sand rail isn't quite so bad in 4 seaters but still prefer it in 2 seater guise.

Either way handling isn't much of an issue, you really don't want to try and take buggies that fast!

[fuoriserie]

cheeky git. I'll have you know I missed it the first time round as well - just happened to find a few while in the VW scene a few years ago (well ok, a decade ago)

Either way handling isn't much of an issue, you really don't want to try and take buggies that fast!
[/quote]




So you're a 60's child then ......., the 2 seater rear engine is still the best looking, but an updated version, could be interesting for the oldies of the forum ...........

Edited by fuoriserie on Tuesday 19th June 16:06

[grahambell]

fuoriserie said:

I was looking for a different design concept to consider, and thought of a modern dune Buggy, maybe using a FWD engine just like the Stimsondesign prototype, using a Ford fiesta platform.

Hi Italo, If you're not already familiar with it you might also want to check out the Quantum Sunrunner.

This too is a modern take on the buggy theme based on Fiesta parts and predates the Stimson. John Samson, boss of Quantum, says they make a lot of these for car hire companies operating in holiday resorts in Spain - which is where Fiestas are made.

So there's one potential market for a simple fun car.

[fuoriserie]

grahambell said:

fuoriserie said:

I was looking for a different design concept to consider, and thought of a modern dune Buggy, maybe using a FWD engine just like the Stimsondesign prototype, using a Ford fiesta platform.

Hi Italo, If you're not already familiar with it you might also want to check out the Quantum Sunrunner.

This too is a modern take on the buggy theme based on Fiesta parts and predates the Stimson. John Samson, boss of Quantum, says they make a lot of these for car hire companies operating in holiday resorts in Spain - which is where Fiestas are made.

So there's one potential market for a simple fun car.

Hi Graham, I had completely forgotten about the sunrunner, I thoght it was a prototype kit that never made it to the market........

That is closest in concept to a modern day mid-engine dune buggy,......... I guess a Sylva Mojo, or the Mev Rocket could lend their chassis for such a design project....

Must sketch something soon.....

[fuoriserie]

The new MANXTER Dune buggy, on the long wheelbase VW platform, and with a scooby engine as an option

[fuoriserie]

a few more very nice looking images..........

[fuoriserie]

I think Cymtricks wanted to see and Elan plus 2 restyling, here is a very rough doodle based on an Mk1 MAZDA Mx5 rebody .......

[fuoriserie]

for those who like Astons like me, then here is my mx5 rebody kit design rough sketch........... last sketch on the mx5 platform..........looking for some cobra chassis........

Edited by fuoriserie on Thursday 21st June 13:57

[fuoriserie]

I forgot about this one.........

[neilrallying]

Hi Italo,

I really like your MX5 rebody ideas, it is a good little platform and you are showing some nicely designed sketches. I hope that we may get to meet at a show sometime this year.

A question for all PistonHeaders on here, do you want to see a manufacturer develop and market a coupe vehicle? If so what would the criteria be for the vehicle, ie performance, practicality, trim levels/options, price point etc.

As a kit manufacturer we follow these threads with great interest as they help us with our decisions on future models.

I look forward to hearing some more opinions.

Neil.

[Davi]

neilrallying said:

A question for all PistonHeaders on here, do you want to see a manufacturer develop and market a coupe vehicle? If so what would the criteria be for the vehicle, ie performance, practicality, trim levels/options, price point etc.

Definitely from me.

The only thing stopping me buying another kit to date is that I haven't seen a coupe that's had any real thought put into it - they either look bad, have low spec or are totally impractical.

You either have car's like the Ultima & GT40 - both stunning cars but not really ideal for everyday use, unless you never have need to carry something larger than a pencil case, or you have small lightweights with... erm... well usually dog rough styling!

About the only exception to this is the GTM, but it's not what I'm after either - it's well designed, but not to my personal taste, and for me is still too small.

I'd like to see a mid to large sized coupe, plenty of engine options, and the ability to go on a tour of europe without having to choose between taking the wife or some luggage!

Think DB9..

[neilrallying]

Thanks Davi, interesting thoughts on a larger coupe vehicle.
Perhaps Italo's thoughts on a Murtaya Coupe are worth having a think about!
Neil.

[fuoriserie]

neilrallying said:

Hi Italo,

I really like your MX5 rebody ideas, it is a good little platform and you are showing some nicely designed sketches. I hope that we may get to meet at a show sometime this year.

Neil.

Hi Neil, will try to be at one of the major shows later this year, and looking forward to it......

In reference to the mx5, I believe this to be a great little platform to play with, for bolt on rebody designs, or use its engine and chassis sunspension setup, for a new complete kitcar design.

Westfield is now using it as a donor, and many locosts are in the USA , maybe due to its excellent engine /chassis package.

What draws me to this platform is , its well designed and proven rear wheel drive platform, very good dealer worlwide network, so if you need parts or service your kitcar, you can just drive to your local dealer, and have your car checked.

Mazda mx5 production to date, more than 750.000 units, and let's say you have half of thiose still running, you have a huge potential niche market to tap into, with a great following and many tuning companies supplying parts.

With more stringent homologation laws, comming into force in Europe in the near future, and the fact that younger kids are not that mechanically inclined, just like me........, and a rebody design can still give a unique look to your sportscar, without having to wait so long for the build.

You will still have the hardcore kitcar builder........but that's going to be a small dying breed....., the younger Playstation kids, need to get their sportscar today and not wait for 6 -12 months..!!

Rebodies could be one of the solutions to consider......

Personally, the biggest buying factor for me would be, the design shape, and the fact that I could drive a new sportscar, without needing to homologate the car in italy....!!!!!!!!

Italy has one of the worst, and most bizzantine,homologatoion systems in the world, and we have very few kitcars over here, and most are considerd used Uk imports, to bypass VAT on new cars......., or registered in the Uk, and then imported as used bespoke one off kits.......

With a rebody, there is no need, because it would be considered as body kit/cosmetic enhancement, and the car is basically the same as the original, because there is no altering of the chassis, for italian laws.......

From the info i have, this goes on pretty much in every European country, with varying degrees of difficulties, depending on local laws.

In the next 2 to 5 years, cars will have to comply with more strict environmental regulations, and only big car manufacturers can spend millions on research and development.

We are on the brink of a new change, and its direction, will be clear in the next few years, and diversification into rebodies could be one of the solutions, for some kitcar manufacturers to survive,.

Another solution could be to build very expensive one-off bespoke sportscars for the well to do, just like the italian famous carrozzerias of the 60's.....but the design needs to step up considerably, to get the client that unique sportscar.


So that means that, if I can, and will ever be, able to drive a kitcar in italy, without going through various hassles, it can only be a rebody....... and when I become rich later in life,let's say 60!!, a kitcar.......

Few cars can be used for rebodies, the mx5 and the mr2, but in italy mx5's are cheaper and more plentiful.....and finally i could get to drive something different and unique......

Just my personal views, from I'm an old gt, and memory keeps failing me lately, and will deny every word I've said here ..........

Edited by fuoriserie on Friday 22 June 11:54

[fuoriserie]

neilrallying said:

Thanks Davi, interesting thoughts on a larger coupe vehicle.
Perhaps Italo's thoughts on a Murtaya Coupe are worth having a think about!
Neil.

or a 2+2 coupe design, being that quite a few have a family with kids, and need the extra space .

It does make manufacturing a lot more complicated though......

[fuoriserie]

I've always liked this very rough sketch, for a mid-engine coupe based on an Mr2 platform....

Edited by fuoriserie on Friday 22 June 19:48

[cymtriks]

This is what I ment by a revised Elan +2

And this is a slightly more modren version of the same thing

Both of these are, obviously, altered images of real cars.

This is my idea for a mid engined seven. The curved cover over the engine is an attempt to move away from the wedge styling of most mid engined seven type cars. The bodywork is two inches higher than a typical seven and the engine cover just clears a Ford Zetec (I measured one) but a bike engine would be easier to fit a might give a bit more room between the fibreglass and hot exhaust pipes.


In all three pictures I've tried to avoid the usual style for concepts of oversize wheels and bodywork that won't actually fit around real mechanicals. That's one of the reasons I've started with a real car picture for two of them.

[fuoriserie]

cymtriks said:

This is what I ment by a revised Elan +2

And this is a slightly more modren version of the same thing

Both of these are, obviously, altered images of real cars.


In all three pictures I've tried to avoid the usual style for concepts of oversize wheels and bodywork that won't actually fit around real mechanicals. That's one of the reasons I've started with a real car picture for two of them.

Cymtriks,
They all look like very interesting design concept with a lot of potential, but when I sketch or design something, i always try to think who is going to be the potential buyer.

I ask myself these questions:

Who is the potential buyer?

Why should they buy this car, instead of the competition?

What and where is the value of this design?

Manufacturing capabilities of the potential kitcar manufacturer and poitential builder of the kit?

Price to manufacture the kit?

Build costs by the enthusiasts?

I normally stop here, because very few of my designs pass all these requirements lately, due to various reasons, but most of the time, research and development costs.

Kits are becoming too expensive to develop for most manufacturers, and only a few can do so with new designs....

That is why the exo-skeleton design movement, will be picking up in the future, because most are just a rolling chassis, which will covered with very little bodywork.

I think we're on the verge of a big change , but unfortunately I can't tell more than what i have said in an earlier post.

I can see most kitcar manufacturers become Bespoke-one-off or limited run sportscar manufacturers, with a lot of replicas and a few original bespoke designs.

The rest will be locost sevens and exo-skeleton mid-engines, with a few trackday specials inspired by Radicals.

The only growth i can see, is bolt-on rebodies, with varying degrees of building complexity, but that is where my crystall ball ends......

Cheers
Italo