Tiger or Robin Hood?
Discussion
Hi there,
I've never owned a kit car and I'm by no means a mechanic...
I'm really tempted right now to buy a Lotus 7 style 2nd hand car. I've got a budget of about £5000 to £6000.
It's planned for use on sunny afternoons, the odd track day and my short commute to work if I know there is no chance of rain.
Do you go with a modern fuel injected engine for a bit of modern reliability or a Pinto engine for the retro carbs?
Am I mad or doing the right thing? Any advice warmly recieved.
Ta...
I've never owned a kit car and I'm by no means a mechanic...
I'm really tempted right now to buy a Lotus 7 style 2nd hand car. I've got a budget of about £5000 to £6000.
It's planned for use on sunny afternoons, the odd track day and my short commute to work if I know there is no chance of rain.
Do you go with a modern fuel injected engine for a bit of modern reliability or a Pinto engine for the retro carbs?
Am I mad or doing the right thing? Any advice warmly recieved.
Ta...
With your budget, you shouldn't even be considering Robin Hood - there are much better cars available for that sort of money.
Tiger Super Six's are ok, if a little heavy (personally, I'd avoid the Tiger Cat E1, as it uses unmodified Sierra semi-trailing arm rear suspension that isn't really suitable for a car as light as a Seven).
As Motco says, you will find plenty of nice Westfields around in that price rance and might even get a nice live axle/crossflow 'genuine' Caterham Seven if you shop around and/or wave large wads of cash under the seller's nose for an immediate sale.
Sylvas are amongst the best handling of all the Seven type cars and are also readily available in your price range, if you don't mind the slightly less 'authentic' looks.
Tiger Super Six's are ok, if a little heavy (personally, I'd avoid the Tiger Cat E1, as it uses unmodified Sierra semi-trailing arm rear suspension that isn't really suitable for a car as light as a Seven).
As Motco says, you will find plenty of nice Westfields around in that price rance and might even get a nice live axle/crossflow 'genuine' Caterham Seven if you shop around and/or wave large wads of cash under the seller's nose for an immediate sale.
Sylvas are amongst the best handling of all the Seven type cars and are also readily available in your price range, if you don't mind the slightly less 'authentic' looks.
I am looking for the more authentic (or classic) look. I saw a Dax this weekend and the headlights alone put me off.
It may be a bit snobbish but I'd prefer to have a non-Q reg too...
If we eliminate the Robin Hoods then I don't need to worry about Ford Sierra instruments (me being a snob again!).
Thanks for the input so far!
It may be a bit snobbish but I'd prefer to have a non-Q reg too...
If we eliminate the Robin Hoods then I don't need to worry about Ford Sierra instruments (me being a snob again!).
Thanks for the input so far!
I'm slightly biased (ie. very biased) but I'd say the Super Six is one of the best looking, best proportioned Seven replicas available. It has bulges only in the right places and no unnecessary over-detailing that some replicas seem to suffer from. I'm not very keen on clamshell wings but the Six does look great with them fitted.
I think the last Sixes had modified front suspension that was a slightly wider track and used more common Sierra parts rather than Golf uprights. All the other parts are pretty standard and easily available, apart from the Cortina rear axle that is awkward to find, although I think Tiger have a few still.
However Tiger recently said that they are not making the Six anymore, I believe they are concentrating on the Supercat and R6/B6 now.
I think the last Sixes had modified front suspension that was a slightly wider track and used more common Sierra parts rather than Golf uprights. All the other parts are pretty standard and easily available, apart from the Cortina rear axle that is awkward to find, although I think Tiger have a few still.
However Tiger recently said that they are not making the Six anymore, I believe they are concentrating on the Supercat and R6/B6 now.
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 2nd October 10:55
I agree on the looks of the Six but having an Altas rear axle would put me off straight away; I thought the Six used the English axle 
The Atlas is considered too heavy even by the Mk1/Mk2 Escort rally boys due to the impact on handling. On a flyweight sports cars minimising unsprung weight is very important unless you get to drive on a surfaces akin to a Billiard table most of the time.
The Atlas is considered too heavy even by the Mk1/Mk2 Escort rally boys due to the impact on handling. On a flyweight sports cars minimising unsprung weight is very important unless you get to drive on a surfaces akin to a Billiard table most of the time.Edited by Mr2Mike on Tuesday 2nd October 11:38
Mr2Mike said:
I agree on the looks of the Six but having an Altas rear axle would put me off straight away; I thought the Six used the English axle The Atlas is considered too heavy even by the Mk1/Mk2 Escort rally boys due to the impact on handling. On a flyweight sports cars minimising unsprung weight is very important unless you get to drive on a surfaces akin to a Billiard table most of the time.
It's not an Atlas axle, it's called a Salisbury B axle according to the Haynes manual. I think the Atlas axle may be larger and wider, presumably as they were made for a heavier and more powerful car than a Cortina. The Atlas is considered too heavy even by the Mk1/Mk2 Escort rally boys due to the impact on handling. On a flyweight sports cars minimising unsprung weight is very important unless you get to drive on a surfaces akin to a Billiard table most of the time.Edited by Mr2Mike on Tuesday 2nd October 11:38
How it compares in weight to the Sierra suspension setup I don't know. It seems to handle OK as far as I can tell, and it goes like ****.
Fitting a LSD is tricky though, as there are no standard production LSDs that will fit, so you need a special unit from Quaife or similar.
No, they are both tubular spaceframes. The difference is that the E1 uses Sierra semi-trailing arm rear suspension, that was designed for a medium sized, comfy saloon car and isn't really suitable for a lightweight design. The other Tigers either use a reasonably well located live axle, which isn't brilliant in terms of unsprung weight (so ride & grip suffer on rough tarmac), but gives pretty good geometry, or a 'proper' double wishbone independent suspension system which much superior to the semi-trailing arm set-up.
To be honest unless you're a really talented driver or do lots of trackdays the minor handling differences won't really make that much odds. It's far more important to find a car that's in good condition, doesn't have a rusty chassis, and has the engine and susension (dampers, toe etc..) setup correctly and has been well built so the electrics are sound. Nothing is more annoying than trying to track down endless problems caused by a crap builder.
Whatever type you buy I'm sure you'll enjoy it more if you pick a well-built and well-maintained car over one that has a slightly superior on-paper spec.
Whatever type you buy I'm sure you'll enjoy it more if you pick a well-built and well-maintained car over one that has a slightly superior on-paper spec.
Tigers are great cars, and will put a huge smile on your face whichever model you go for. I was in your position 3 years ago, and bought myself a pre owned Supercat - mainly due to the look of this model, and also because I found it offered a little mopre space than the other models in the range (SuperSix / Avon etc) - also the Cats were more in my price range (5k-6k).
I have never found the rear suspension an issue - but lets face it I am no expert, I just enjoy driving the car & without driving another model in the range how do you tell the difference?. Lets put it this way, my mate has a SuperSix with a mighty 200BHP Zetec - where I only have a 130BHP Pinto. But when we go out for a blast, he say's he can not keep up with me round the corners & that my Cat sticks to the road like Glue compared to his Six - so what does that tell you ?.
For 5k-6k you should find yourself a pretty decent Cat or SuperCat, and a good chance of a Zetec engine (165bhp with twin carbs) for that money.
Cheers
Richard.
I have never found the rear suspension an issue - but lets face it I am no expert, I just enjoy driving the car & without driving another model in the range how do you tell the difference?. Lets put it this way, my mate has a SuperSix with a mighty 200BHP Zetec - where I only have a 130BHP Pinto. But when we go out for a blast, he say's he can not keep up with me round the corners & that my Cat sticks to the road like Glue compared to his Six - so what does that tell you ?.
For 5k-6k you should find yourself a pretty decent Cat or SuperCat, and a good chance of a Zetec engine (165bhp with twin carbs) for that money.
Cheers
Richard.
JimSuperSix said:
To be honest unless you're a really talented driver or do lots of trackdays the minor handling differences won't really make that much odds. It's far more important to find a car that's in good condition, doesn't have a rusty chassis, and has the engine and susension (dampers, toe etc..) setup correctly and has been well built so the electrics are sound. Nothing is more annoying than trying to track down endless problems caused by a crap builder.
Whatever type you buy I'm sure you'll enjoy it more if you pick a well-built and well-maintained car over one that has a slightly superior on-paper spec.
This is great advice. I'm not after the true hardcore handling. Let's face it, my every day drive is a BMW 3 series so having the wind in the hair and being so much closer to the road is going to be great! Whatever type you buy I'm sure you'll enjoy it more if you pick a well-built and well-maintained car over one that has a slightly superior on-paper spec.
Oh yes, no height or weight issue. 5'9" and only a slight beer gut.
Edited by Whynot on Wednesday 3rd October 12:24
Whynot said:
JimSuperSix said:
To be honest unless you're a really talented driver or do lots of trackdays the minor handling differences won't really make that much odds. It's far more important to find a car that's in good condition, doesn't have a rusty chassis, and has the engine and susension (dampers, toe etc..) setup correctly and has been well built so the electrics are sound. Nothing is more annoying than trying to track down endless problems caused by a crap builder.
Whatever type you buy I'm sure you'll enjoy it more if you pick a well-built and well-maintained car over one that has a slightly superior on-paper spec.
This is great advice. I'm not after the true hardcore handling.Whatever type you buy I'm sure you'll enjoy it more if you pick a well-built and well-maintained car over one that has a slightly superior on-paper spec.
As I said earlier, though, your budget is actually quite generous, so you shouldn't have any problem finding a car that looks authentic, is in excellent condition, and has a competent suspension design if you are careful and shop around!
If you are after the 'authentic' look, you might wish to note that the rear wheel arches on the E1 have been 'bulged' at the bottom front edge to clear the semi-trailing arms, which looks a bit naff, IMO... it looks as though the fibreglass has got a bit too hot in the sun and sagged!
I am totally biased, but go for a Tiger !. There's alway's quite a few on the market - no doubt you have looked in the classified section of the kit car mags, quite a few here on Pistonheads for sale - plus it's always worth a look on tigerownersclub.co.uk website - plus always a few on ebay.
5-6k should buy you a realy good Cat with a Pinto up to 150bhp max, but most with twin carbs are around 120-130bhp, you should also be able to find some with a Zetec for that money - but may have to make a few comprimises on spec accordingly. The SuperSix usually commands a bit more money than the Cat / SuperCat - so good hunting.
Just go for a realy tidy / neat build, but in my experience most are pretty OK as either the original builder or current owner tend to take allot of care with their cars. Mine was built by Chester Sportcars, who are an agent for Tiger & if you spot one of these it's usually a good bet as Chester's have a realy good build quality. They do have Cars they sell themselves, but not quite at your budget.
Good Luck.
Richard.
5-6k should buy you a realy good Cat with a Pinto up to 150bhp max, but most with twin carbs are around 120-130bhp, you should also be able to find some with a Zetec for that money - but may have to make a few comprimises on spec accordingly. The SuperSix usually commands a bit more money than the Cat / SuperCat - so good hunting.
Just go for a realy tidy / neat build, but in my experience most are pretty OK as either the original builder or current owner tend to take allot of care with their cars. Mine was built by Chester Sportcars, who are an agent for Tiger & if you spot one of these it's usually a good bet as Chester's have a realy good build quality. They do have Cars they sell themselves, but not quite at your budget.
Good Luck.
Richard.
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