My first Westfield! but which one?

[Dualecosse]

PeteFf said:

Dual Ecosse.
Is that you Calvin? I'm taking bets on it. It's got to be more interesting than the thread now.

Edited by PeteFf on Tuesday 13th November 16:51

what & why does it matter who I am ? Some people must have very shallow sad personal lives if who I am is more interesting than the merits and strengths/weaknesses of a locost chassis.

[Jon Ison]

I said no comment and maybe should keep it that way, but, there is always a but ?

1st off, Ive said before we all sorta belong to the same gang don't we ?

2nd, Its difficult sometimes with the written word to interpret whats been said, cant see the facial expressions, the nod the wink etc, the reason I said earlier no comment was simple, every time locost or bike engine is mentioned either together or separately, replies/posts that come across as very sarcastic and personal (dunno if its intentional but that is 100% they way certain replies/posts come across)and its turns into a slanging match, putting potential new builders owners off (must go away thinking what a bunch of XXXXXX they all are)

When some one starts a post with sarcasm like this....... "Jon Ison said: The usual" and even makes it look like a quote ??? Sorry but then people will get there backs up.


Maybe worth we all (note I said we all) orta read through our postings before hitting the submit button, I'm no English expert but one missing comma can turn a post into something its not.

Now wouldn't it be better if we all burned off some rubber n petrol rather than hot air ?

Edited by Jon Ison on Tuesday 13th November 18:36

[Mr2Mike]

Dualecosse said:

what & why does it matter who I am ? Some people must have very shallow sad personal lives if who I am is more interesting than the merits and strengths/weaknesses of a locost chassis.

Careful Mark, I'm sure you don't want to have to leave another forum...

[LocoBlade]

Sam_68 said:

I can only suggest that if you think there is a good reason why people should spend their money on a Locost rather than a Sylva or Westfield at the same price...you should be explaining why they are better?

Sam

Ive personally never claimed one is better than another, and as Ive said on several occasions the Locost isn't the pinnacle of design in this segment of the kit car market, but the point Ive always contested with you is that IF there's a measurable difference in the performance/dynamics of a Locost against equivalent specification Westies / Sylvas etc, the difference is small enough that it certainly shouldn't be a significant factor in the decision making process for most buyers. Unless you're going racing, people rarely buy a car based solely on a single criteria like grip / handling / chassis stiffness anyway, which means there's some very good reasons why I'd recommend a prospective buyer to seriously consider a Locost as well as the other options.

If you want a Seven style car your choices in the lower end of the market really boil down to Locost derived cars (including manufacturer supplied kits), low end Tigers, Robin Hoods or old / low spec Westies / Strikers and and maybe the odd ageing F27. Few would disagree that the Robin Hoods are simply not in the same ballgame as most of the other options, they're fine for a fun Sunday open top drive but they can't compete in performance terms to most of the other options. For starters they weigh a good 100-150kgs more than most, tend to raid the donor vehicle for everything but the kitchen sink in an effort to keep costs at a minimum (using McPherson struts and the entire back end subframe off the donor etc) and of the kits Ive seen, the quality and "engineering" put into the parts supplied is very poor. The very bottom end Tiger kits are reasonable enough quality from what Ive seen, but are either Locost inspired anyway or in the case of the Cat E1, not a lot better than a Robin Hood dynamically, similarly using the entire rear suspension assembly off a Sierra.

Therefore if you only have £5-6k to spend and want something that gets you close to Caterham-like dynamics, the list realistically narrows down to old/low spec Westies/Strikers or the Locost inspired cars from MK, STM or Luego etc. Strikers are great but their looks aren't to everyone's taste and the cockpit is very narrow compared to most which may be an issue for some, so I can see why people wouldn't want one. Westies are a known quantity and undoubtedly a good choice for many, but for equal money, you'll get a higher spec and/or much newer Locost derived car for the same money which is a very good reason to consider them. Some may not see the attraction in spending £5k on a tired old XFlow/Pinto Westfield or Striker thats sat in a damp garage for 10-15 years when you could have an equally capable MK Indy or STM Locost thats maybe 2-3 years old with a modern, more powerful 16v / bike engine in it.

Chris

Edited by LocoBlade on Tuesday 13th November 20:29

[PeteFf]

Dualecosse said:

what & why does it matter who I am ? Some people must have very shallow sad personal lives if who I am is more interesting than the merits and strengths/weaknesses of a locost chassis.

Ironic isn't it? If you can't do the time I mean, personal insults are not called for on a forum and calling another persons choice of car isn't either. I remember you had a Locost at the time you were on Locostbuilders.

[dern]

Jon Ison said:

2nd, Its difficult sometimes with the written word to interpret whats been said, cant see the facial expressions, the nod the wink etc, the reason I said earlier no comment was simple, every time locost or bike engine is mentioned either together or separately, replies/posts that come across as very sarcastic and personal (dunno if its intentional but that is 100% they way certain replies/posts come across)and its turns into a slanging match, putting potential new builders owners off (must go away thinking what a bunch of XXXXXX they all are)

You're absolutely right. I'd like to apologise to the OP for getting so annoyed at Sam (again) and for substantially contributing to any negative feeling that has no place in a thread asking for advice.

[PeteFf]

It's called trolling, some people do it just to get a reaction. Don't feed them and they go away, like cats.

[Dualecosse]

PeteFf said:

I remember you had a Locost at the time you were on Locostbuilders.

Sadly Sir this again is incorrect, I have never owned a "locost" in my life.

[Dualecosse]

Mr2Mike said:

Careful Mark, I'm sure you don't want to have to leave another forum...

Sir please explain this ludicrous statement ? if I decide to do anything anywhere it is because i wish to do so, not because I have to.

I have never "had to" leave anything, there is a difference.

[Meeja]

Right.

If you want to have a fight, do it in private.

Use the "email me" facility on your profiles and go crazy.

Keep the forums free from crap.

Edited to add:

Any continuation of slanging matches and bitching will result in a thread lock.

I'm not in the mood this morning.....

Edited by Meeja on Wednesday 14th November 07:46

[powerstans]

Thanks to everyone for the enlightening banter!

Back to a basic few questions,

Is it worth considering a xflow or CVH engined car (whether it be Westfield or an other) for my first 7 type kit car or will I be quickly grow frustrated with the maintenance, power of these type of engines (and if I had to which one as articles by Puma Racing seem to prefer the CVH but the x-flow seems far more common)?

Following other forum discussions a zetec or vauxhall engine conversion seems to be in the region of £2500-£3000, is this correct?

Cheers but please keep it polite if we have a few ditterent opinions.

I looked at the bike route but am not sure for my first 7 type, Thanks to the forum member who suggested one of off the classified but it was a narrow body, I would mention again I am 6'5", and if not fat certainly no racing snake.

[PeteFf]

Buy the cheapest thing you can bear to be seen in till you decide whether you like the cars or not, then either get something better or improve what you have. Zetec needs an ignition and induction system to get it working and obviously an exhaust, VX needs the same plus a bellhousing to adapt to rear wheel drive. It's all down to the individual in the end so no-one can tell you what is best for you you will have to get out there and do the research.

[Sam_68]

powerstans said:

Is it worth considering a xflow or CVH engined car (whether it be Westfield or an other) for my first 7 type kit car or will I be quickly grow frustrated with the maintenance, power of these type of engines (and if I had to which one as articles by Puma Racing seem to prefer the CVH but the x-flow seems far more common)?

The Crossflow has a better reputation than the CVH for tuneability and reliability, but it is getting pretty long in the tooth, these days. Anything much above about 135bhp genuine horsepower(... every man and his dog bolts cams & carbs onto Crossflows and claims 135bhp, but the truth is usually closer to 110bhp) gets a buit temperamental with the Crossflow. The one in my Sylva is circa 150bhp (give or take for dyno accuracy) and to be honest is a pretty unpleasant device for road use... it won't pull cleanly much below 3,500 revs and it can be a bitch to start from flat cold. I'd still choose a Crossflow in preference to a CVH, but there's probably not much in it.

powerstans said:

Following other forum discussions a zetec or vauxhall engine conversion seems to be in the region of £2500-£3000, is this correct?

You might get it a bit cheaper, but that won't be far off by the time you've added everything up.

It would make more financial sense to shop around until you find a car with the right engine to start off with. Vauxhall/Zetec engined cars are occasionally offered within your budget range, and remember that cars never change hands at the asking price. If you've got a big wad of cash in your pocket, it would be reasonable to be looking at cars asking about £1K more than you actually want to spend...

[powerstans]

Cheers

I was looking at the red vauxhall seiw on classifieds & the yellow cvh. Red one has had a deposit taken, (Shame) genuine westfield engine cvh was tempting. Looks in good condition but CVH. Guess I will have to bite the bullit. Will visit Exeter first for more inspiration.

Also one 1.6 k series advertised? not seen this on westfields before any one got some knowledge of these, I know Caterham & lotus use the engine>

Cheers for the advice.

[spaximus]

Don't dismiss any car just on the engine. I have had so many people through the Westfield club get on there to be told they need xyz engine with 200 plus bhp, having never been out in any 7 type car.
My road car has approx 200bhp and when I have taken people out in it everyone has been left doubting they need anywhere near the power. Any that has 100bhp will feel like lightening on the road as the power to weight even with a smaller engine will be so good it will feel fast.
Try to get out in as many as you can build quality is the key not the bragging rights of a particular engine. Remember the cvh is easily upgraded to RS turbo and 300bhp is not too hard to get.