Kit Car Magazine is Crap?

[meeja]

The postman brought me my copy this morning....

It is now sitting in my briefcase, and I am looking for a suitable excuse to sit at my desk and do no work for an hour or so....

Thanks Den.....

Feedback to follow!

[kitcarman]

PetrolTed said:

I bought a copy yesterday to read on the train. I liked it a lot.

Thanks for buying one Ted, but I’d gladly have sent you one – on the house!

PetrolTed said:

Thought that the snipes at Which Kit did undermine its credibility a lot though.

Keep this quite Ted, but I agree. Just like my postings, I have a tendency to over-do things. I lost my dummy when Fibs said “I didn’t win anything” and accused me of being “spineless” when it seemed to me that the opposite was in fact the case.
Before this, Kit Car wasn’t prone to emotional outbursts because it’s usually 100% under the editorship of Mr Hyne. The stuff that’s been slipped in w/o the editors express knowledge can be identified by my brand of spelling.
As I said – keep this just between you and me. OK!
Having said this, I stand by what I’ve said and it’s been incredibly effective – commercially speaking.

PetrolTed said:

I liked it a lot…. Those pieces aside it's a very good mag.

Payment in a brown paper bag? Where shall we meet?

[PetrolTed]

Fair enough. I've done some silly things business-wise in the heat of the moment

[kitcarman]

PetrolTed said:

Fair enough. I've done some silly things business-wise in the heat of the moment

Yes, I’ve undermined my own credibility, but I’m also in a catch 22 situation. See if you (the whole forum that is) can help me untangle this mess:-

My very first posting on this forum insisted that my gripes were not pathetic, childish or unprofessional. I still stand by that, and hope to acquit myself on those charges. I’d plead guilty to “Throwing my teddy and blowing my whistle and letting off steam whilst the balance of my mind was disturbed ” and agree to do a lifetime’s service for the Kit Car community

Conundrum is that the job isn’t finished yet . I may have been OTT, but it needed saying IMHO. If I’m right I’ve created a quandary . I don’t want to piss people off, but don’t want them ripped off either. I’m also determined to have a level playing field.

I’m damned if I do and damned if I don’t it seems. There’s a pride issue too!!!

Do I need to see a trick cyclist ?

Den
PS. I assume you've all got your freebies by now.

>> Edited by kitcarman on Thursday 25th September 13:35

[tuffer]

No freebie in my postbox yet.....but then again I have had no post all week!!! Usually get a couple of letters a day so I think Andover PO are on a go slow/stop.

[Ex-Biker]

It looks like mine could be waiting for me at home.

Postie's made it to Cornwall this week!!!

Will let you know what I think Kitcarman

[RobCritchley]

Southampton Postie seems a bit slow on the uptake too

[andycanam]

kitcarman said:

andycanam said: KITCARMAN I thought your major gripe was that Peter printed unfair and inaccurate writings about the Pilgrim.... What gave you that impression?

For a start you sent me a mail all about Peter and his comments regarding the Pilgrim, court cases etc...

kitcarman said:

andycanam said: .... isn't this just more of the same? I really don’t think so!

You don’t think that slating a cobra replica with suggestions that the engine doesn’t fit or isn’t suitable and that the chassis isn’t any good etc doesn’t sound familiar to you?

kitcarman said:

andycanam said: What I would like to see most is factual unbiased reports and comments from both magazines.... So what do you think I want? andycanam said: …what the hell are we going to do if we can't get this from either? There’s a clear suggestion that you accuse both magazines of bias. Would you care to be specific as to where and about what?

Certainly
I think you are very miss informed regarding this car/company and a man in your position and history should try harder to be more accurate and less misleading or judgemental…. So here is a little info that I have managed to attain with much less resources than you have available.

1. Peter Filby is not an Owner, director or manager of RV Dynamics and is in fact effectively their UK advertisers… so what does need to be disclosed? that he gets paid for doing their advertising and passing orders to RV Dynamics?
2. There are already orders been placed for the Python…. And in fact the chassis at the show was a customers (one of three) that have just been shipped over and are being delivered (I’ve seen them).
3. The BMW V8 is smaller than the Chevy V8 so If you have fitted Chevies under a cobra bonnet (I saw the TV programme) how do you justify your comments that you don’t think the BMW will fit?

I only know this stuff as I actually bothered to have a chat with the guy on the Nemesis stand and I then went to see him at his UK factory as he is only 10minutes from my work.
It was your comments that made me ask the questions but what you seem to have done is made a load of assumptions and stated them as facts without investigating them at all... of cause my assumption is that as editor your views and comments spill over into your magazine.

My previous post was an attempt at putting this tactfully and to get you thinking….. which goes to show I’m crap a tactful!


BTW I’m don't know Peter and have never met, spoke with, seen, e-mailed him etc... so I am not in any way trying to defend or justify anything he has or hasn't done.

[kitcarman]

andycanam said:

Don’t you don’t think that slating a cobra replica with suggestions that the engine doesn’t fit or isn’t suitable and that the chassis isn’t any good etc doesn’t sound familiar to you?

In my magazine I’ve not used the expanded terminology employed by you above. My ‘attack’ is aimed squarely at asserting my belief that none of the claims are justified given that the car did not exist when the claims were made. I ridicule the ethics of making advertising claims before it’s known whether or not they can be honoured. In respect to engine fitment, I merely pointed out that the claim that it fits ‘perfectly too’ was wide of the mark, not because it can’t be made to ‘fit perfectly too’ but because the claim was made some 18 months (at least) before it had been fitted, let alone ‘perfectly’ fitted.
Who did you say was responsible for marketing claims? Who reiterates this conjecture as fact? Is he qualified to make such assertions?
As it happens, you’re wrong about the size of a BMW V8 in any event. Those in the 5 series are massively wide. Wider, I believe, than the bonnet aperture on the Unique Autocraft Ltd Cobra that’s shown in the RV Dynamics Cobra advertisement.

andycanam said:

I think you are very miss informed regarding this car/company….. 1. Peter Filby is not an Owner, director or manager of RV Dynamics and is in fact effectively their UK advertisers… so what does need to be disclosed? that he gets paid for doing their advertising and passing orders to RV Dynamics?

You know this as fact (as stated) do you?
I don’t, which is why I said (on page 104) that “Which Kit? is involved with three firms…”. No more, no less.
In any event, I’d say that his position as described by you is managerial and to that extent I believe he does indeed have an interest to declare. (Don’t buy an X – wait to see the Python, are his words. Now transpires that he’s on the payroll as a salesman). Don't you see the need for disclosure????

Even if you were right in respect to RV Dynamics, what’s your view concerning (the new) Unique Autocraft (which was up till last month trying to sell Dave Pepper’s AF) and Razer Sportscars?

How do you, as a member of the public, feel about Peter using Mr Financier as a thin veil to hide his involvement in AF or referring obliquely to 'new owners' in respect to Razer? How do you feel about the seemingly objective praise of all three, now you know that he's apparently paid as a salesman?

andycanam said:

2. There are already orders been placed for the Python…. And in fact the chassis at the show was a customers (one of three) that have just been shipped over and are being delivered (I’ve seen them).

Well let’s hope they get the whole kit and are happy with it. If I were offered a fully triangulated backbone chassis and received a basic ladder in it’s place I wouldn’t be, but I know the difference.

We’ve all seen them in last month’s Which Kit? It pains me to think that not only are they being sold before the most rudimentary of trials, but honest companies are deprived an honest living. All because Mr Filby is willing to sell his integrity (by which I mean objectivity as a publisher) for commission or possibly advertising revenue or both or more. Who knows why, but it's not IMHO sound practice.

andycanam said:

3. The BMW V8 is smaller than the Chevy V8 so If you have fitted Chevies under a cobra bonnet (I saw the TV programme) how do you justify your comments that you don’t think the BMW will fit?

I wonder if one of the guys on the BMW forum would be kind and post a pic of a 5 series V8. Anyway, see my point above re “fits perfectly”. How will anybody know ‘till its been done?

andycanam said:

I actually bothered to have a chat with the guy on the Nemesis stand. . . what you seem to have done is made a load of assumptions and stated them as facts. . .

Perhaps you’d be kind enough to ask this ‘chap’ to pay the advertising bill that was run-up before he legged it Sri Lanka. Also, for his benefit, perhaps he should contact me with his account of the situation. Strange, me thinks, that he hasn’t said a word to me about what’s been published.

Please tell me precisely what 'facts' I've published to which you object?

My issue with what you say isn’t that its lacking tact, but that it’s intellectually bankrupt.

The most crass point for me was that you see no wrong in Mr Filby acting both as salesman (and I think it goes further than that) and impartial adviser.

Makes me wonder why you’re so keen to mount his defence when he hasn't.

Den.


>> Edited by kitcarman on Monday 29th September 21:04

[ultimaandy]

kitcarman said:

Perhaps you’d be kind enough to ask this ‘chap’ to pay the advertising bill that was run-up before he legged it Sri Lanka. Also, for his benefit, perhaps he should contact me with his account of the situation. Strange, me thinks, that he hasn’t said a word to me about what’s been published. The most crass point for me was that you see no wrong in Mr Filby acting both as salesman (and I think it goes further than that) and impartial adviser. Makes me wonder why you’re so keen to mount his defence when he hasn't. Den.

You question why I'm so keen to defend Peter when I make it quite clear I am not interested in the slightest in your attack on him or in defending him, (but the way you act on here I expected you to say that)....... however you now make it quite clear why you go on about RV.
Quite frankly I don't care if he owes you money and suggest you phone him yourself....

Again, my point is that you are making assumptions and making suggestions (or whatever you want to call it) without looking into things and getting the facts...... whether you are right or wrong, to me thats not impartial.

BTW in case you didn't know I'm also known as Andycanam.

[kitcarman]

ultimaandy said:

You question why I'm so keen to defend Peter when I make it quite clear I am not interested in the slightest in your attack on him or in defending him, (but the way you act on here I expected you to say that)....

So what were you doing if not defending his actions. You appear to have heard another explanation and taken it hook line and sinker w/o the slightest regard to the facts of the situation. These are that Mr Filby’s position is clearly untenable if he’s acting as both impartial adviser to his readers whilst also hiding a vested interest in one particular product.

ultimaandy said:

... however you now make it quite clear why you go on about RV.

Did somebody turn two pages at once, because I don’t follow this quantum leap.

ultimaandy said:

Quite frankly I don't care if he owes you money and suggest you phone him yourself....

Phone who? Phone where? Do you have a number other than the offices of Which Kit? For that matter, have you an address, even in Sri Lanka?

ultimaandy said:

Again, my point is that you are making assumptions and making suggestions (or whatever you want to call it) without looking into things and getting the facts...... whether you are right or wrong, to me thats not impartial.

For the second (or is it third?) time. Please be specific.

The only assertions I’ve made are:-

1. That the Python doesn’t exist. That’s admitted in that the chassis you’ve seen were said, in Which Kit? last month, to be the first.

2. That Which Kit? is involved with RV Dynamics. It seems that you accept that much. Even if you don't, everybody else appears to. It's a difficult assertion to counter when confronted with the fact Which Kit? and Rv Dynamics share the same address and telephone numbers.

I don’t think I’m being unreasonable in asking you to be specific as where you think I’ve overstated my case in Kit Car. Does anybody else out there agree with me?

Den

>> Edited by kitcarman on Tuesday 30th September 01:47

[gtrclive]

I do think Andy has been clear enough allready, and if Kitcarman cannot understand him, well then I say his Heart is covering his eye's.
I'm sorry for your situation, but Andy is not suporting Mr Filby, just saying that We have seen the Three Chassis's, and anyone can put on a Body on a Chassis.
So please don't fire at Andy he is just informing you of what He knows. Do you not want any info that we have ? If you don't then don't post here.

Ps Have you ever had any runins with the originator of the Classic Replica's Cobra, I think he was based in Pool ?

[ultimaandy]

Do we really need to go around this again..... like you say it's not my problem.

Lets just say from your private mails to me I expected you to be a little more sensitive around this kind of topic.

[kitcarman]

Clive, I’m absolutely gobsmacked!
If I understand correctly, you are both saying that because a chassis has now been made, that’s proof of the fact that Kit Car was biased after all.
Anybody else care to step into this, please! I need to know if this is really the consensus.

[gtrclive]

Let's just say I've built a Dutton with only an old chassis, and made everything else. The chassis at donnington was only a start I know but it does Exsist, and a Cobra body can be bought from many places.

[kitcarman]

Gobsmacked!
Gobsmacked!
Gobsmacked!
Gobsmacked!
Gobsmacked!
Gobsmacked!
Gobsmacked!

Ok! everything was OK because there's now an unbuilt, untested chassis and probably nothing else.

Kit Car was biased - just like ultimandy said.

They're as bad as each other. Proved!

BTW At least you knew that your Dutton chassis could be built and that it would work when done.
BTW2 Did you know that the Python has 2 inches longer w/b than other Cobras - one of its sales features.



>> Edited by kitcarman on Tuesday 30th September 01:22

[kitcarman]

gtrclive said:

Have you ever had any runins with the originator of the Classic Replica's Cobra...

Yes i did, along with everybody else who had the misfortune of crossing his path.

[andycanam]

You get this....

kitcarman said:

Kit Car was biased - just like ultimandy said. They're as bad as each other. Proved!

From This.....

andycanam said:

KITCARMAN I thought your major gripe was that Peter printed unfair and inaccurate writings about the Pilgrim.... isn't this just more of the same? What I would like to see most is factual unbiased reports and comments from both magazines.... what the hell are we going to do if we can't get this from either?

From your month on here I have observed 3 things.

1. you want feedback on Kit-Car magazine as you felt we held it in low regard.
2. You don’t like Peter Filby (I’m refraining from using stronger words).
3. You feel you must slate any product you think is associated with this man.

Regarding RV I only know what the owner has told me and what I have seen…. And some of what you’ve suggested on this forum is misleading.

Rather than an attack on your mag, I was trying to point out you were not being fair or fully representative.

My entire ramblings on here are referring to your comments on this forum rather than specifically the content of your mag, but you have set yourself up as the mag’s representative so I’m not entirely to blame for the link…..


I’ve said elsewhere, I actually really enjoyed the free mag you sent me… and the bad news for you is that I would probably have bought this issue as it had loads in there I liked.

[gtrclive]

Snap / Ditto

>> Edited by gtrclive on Tuesday 30th September 10:33

[kitcarman]

Andy, we’re at cross purposes and not simply cross.

andycanam said:

KITCARMAN I thought your major gripe was that Peter printed unfair and inaccurate writings about the Pilgrim.... isn't this just more of the same?

I said I didn’t believe that it was either my ‘major gripe’ or ‘more of the same’.

andycanam said:

What I would like to see most is factual unbiased reports and comments from both magazines.... what the hell are we going to do if we can't get this from either?

I responded by asking you to specify where Kit Car’s reports had lacked fact or had been biased. You’ve clarified matters:-

andycanam said:

My entire ramblings on here are referring to your comments on this forum rather than specifically the content of your mag. . . .I’m not entirely to blame for the link…..

So, it seems a major confusion has been cleared up, so let’s revisit your initial comment.

andycanam said:

... what the hell are we going to do if we can't get [factual unbiased reports] from either [magazine]?

My original answer to this question was:-

kitcarman said:

There’s a clear suggestion that you accuse both magazines of bias. Would you care to be specific as to where and about what?

I clarified what Kit Car actually said. On the “does a chassis constitute a car?” question, I’d add that it was only a few weeks ago that they materialized. The advertisement reproduced in Kit Car on p104 first appeared in Which Kit? about 18 months ago.

andycanam said:

I only know what the owner has told me and what I have seen…. And some of what you’ve suggested on this forum is misleading.

With respect, you don’t ‘only know’ what ‘the owner’ told you. In fact you don’t even ‘know’ that he is in fact the owner. Yet you’re able to conclude, on the strength of his testimony that I’m the one who is inaccurate (I accept that 'liar' was too strong - no offence intended, Andy). Not upon the basis of what’s in the magazine but upon the basis of what I’ve said here. But that wasn’t your initial point was it?

Am I getting all sensitive again?

I really don’t believe it’s right that we kick six bells out of each other. As peetbee said, we’re all friends here I don’t think there are many who like you and gtrclive who would equate what’s in Kit Car in respect to Python as misleading or biased. I’ve truthfully conveyed the situation (as it was at the least) in entertaining and humorous terms. What does it matter that you have difficulty in separating what I’ve said here from what’s in the magazine? You like the magazine, and despite outward appearances, I respect your stance. I’m prepared to agree not to agree at this time, but let time itself be my judge.

Deal? Den

Edited to expand in my use of the word 'liar'. Sincere apologies to ultimandy - there was no offence intended.


>> Edited by kitcarman on Wednesday 1st October 09:56